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Re: The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape

by 1nickt (Abbot)
on Aug 21, 2021 at 12:15 UTC ( #11136004=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape

Do what you want with your proposed OO framework, but please acknowledge that it belongs as a competitor with all the others that have come before, some of which are in very widespread use.

Consider whether your fixation on getting your framework adopted into Perl core is based on ego.

Make some software, show it to the community. If it works well, it will be used. What more do you need?

TIMTOWTDI


The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
  • Comment on Re: The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape

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Re^2: The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Aug 21, 2021 at 17:27 UTC
    TIMTOWTDI

    Where do you draw the line? We wouldn't have DBI if Sybperl, Oraperl, etc were good enough. Getting DBI meant getting XS in shape so that you didn't have to recompile all of Perl to link to a library via C calling conventions.

    Sometimes getting the right thing in the core expands the universe of potential WTDI.

Re^2: The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape
by haj (Curate) on Aug 21, 2021 at 12:56 UTC
    Consider whether your fixation on getting your framework adopted into Perl core is based on ego.

    That would be quite some egos here.

    Damian Conway, who created several OO frameworks which are available on CPAN, wrote about disadvantages shared by all OO frameworks which are not in the core.

    Also, I trust the Perl porters and the Perl Steering Committee that they won't accept it into the core if they wouldn't think it fits.

Re^2: The Corinna RFC for getting modern OO into the Perl core is taking shape
by mr_mischief (Monsignor) on Aug 26, 2021 at 15:03 UTC

    Why include a TCP/IP stack in your OS? Surely some people use other types of networks. Why include a libc, since clearly there are hundreds of other programming languages? Why include a syslog facility when some apps target some other logging facility or manage log files themselves? Why even have a local filesystem when people can just write to S3? Why ship framebuffer support since everyone eventually installs a vendor-specific accelerated video driver?

    Here are some relevant soundbite-sized quotes.

    • “Computer languages differ not so much in what they make possible, but in what they make easy.”
    • “When they first built the University of California at Irvine they just put the buildings in. They did not put any sidewalks, they just planted grass. The next year, they came back and put the sidewalks where the trails were in the grass. Perl is just that kind of language. It is not designed from first principles. Perl is those sidewalks in the grass.”
    • "Perl is designed to give you several ways to do anything, so consider picking the most readable one."
    • "Portability should be the default.”
    • “Part of language design is perturbing the proposed feature in various directions to see how it might generalize in the future.”
    • “A journey of a thousand miles continues with the second step.”
    • "Although the Perl Slogan is There's More Than One Way to Do It, I hesitate to make 10 ways to do something."
    • “We're really serious about reinventing everything that needs reinventing.”

    Do you know who said any of those? They're all from timtoady and I can't think of a better indicator of the Perl nature than its creator. We've had many, many ways to do it. Now there are some pretty good ideas where the paths are in the grass. The language should have a way to do the things we need it to do, to perturb the OO feature in a direction that in this case is already being generalized for the future. It can finally be a a readable way to do things that goes everywhere recent versions of the core language tools will be installed. That will help Perl make OO easy.

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