It seems unbalanced, that people can log in and get XP for their knowledge, and then log out to be rude -- and not take the hit to their reputation. I greatly look forward to logging in tomorrow and seeing my XP take a dive. That's the way it works. The only way a community with a common interest in sharing and accumulating knowledge can work is when people stand behind their opinions (whether moderate or extreme).

Oh yes, I can think of many excellent reasons to disagree with me, but I'm not going to give anyone free ammunition :-)

e-mail neshura

I can see this turning into a very long node if we get into the netiquette, the AC, flammers, et al discussion, but I don't want to let this one go just yet...

You said:
While I support anonymity in general on the Internet, I see no compelling reason to offer monks a disguise so they can flame at will.
and I totally agree with that! As a matter of fact, just to set the record straight, my name is John Burbridge and I can be reached at (+55-11) 3744-1760 or "talk johnny@chthon.warp.psi.br". :o)

But I beleive strongly in anonimity and I think it is a matter which each individual user should have the right to opt for. Being known as BBQ or John makes absolutely no difference to me, but I know I does to a bunch of people. I think the idea of cutting off the Anonymous Monks sounds a bit ... err.. radical(?), and the only other imminent solution that I can think of is the IP posting. I agree that it doesn't solve the issue, but I think it helps.(This could be a pretty good poll question, btw)

Indeed it does sound radical. That was my point. I posted something not just radical but inimical to a great many people (including myself, sometimes), under my only login. (Which I use everywhere, it's as much me as my real name is)

Yes, this could be a long thread if we were to really take up the question of anonymity on the Internet, but I just wanted to throw an idea out there. I don't mind long threads -- no discussion should be unwelcome.

Though anonymity is, of course, a sacred cow to every proper freedom-loving technoanarchist.

(and I do so love hamburgers)

Maybe I'm a troublemaker, suggesting something like getting rid of AMs. But let's go back to the original question. We know that there will be a real problem that will most probably occur -- the signal to noise ratio plummeting. So, what will keep the site usable if this happens? We don't have a lot of case studies to go on...e2 and /. are about all that there is. And e2 is ALL noise. That's okay, that's what it's there for -- it self-selects for the gibbering sort of person. /. is a study in riot control, and it lives on the edge of chaos -- an interesting place to be, unless you are frustrated with the GD module and you need a quick answer because your boss expects something ready to go in less than 14 hours. Perl Monks is painted as a monastery -- probably a more apropos metaphor than the founders even intended. Knowledge is sacred and noise is banned in quite a few real monasteries, even today.

Okay, so noise bothers me, personally. But this is a democracy. Just because I get upset when some tentative newbie is crudely flamed does not mean that I am right. I actually think the IP suggestion could work. But it seems hypocritical when compared with my idea -- "Yeah, we're definitely pro-anonymity, but we're gonna log your IP address just in case". In case what? Someone uses the shield of anonymity to say something rude or unpopular, possibly over and over again? If the majority is pro-anonymity, then the majority should be willing to let AMs roam unencumbered. To do otherwise would be a farce.

So, nice to meet you John (really!). My name's Amanda. If you or anyone else would like to talk/argue/bitch me out, my home # is (408) 530-9348. I welcome your opinions.

email neshura ::I'm not anti-noise, I'm pro-signal::

I think we ought to take a hint from comp.lang.perl.misc in discouraging from post-but-don't-read users, who ask "Please e-mail me the answer because I don't check here," because that defeats one purpose for the site. It would also be nice to encourage people to repeat questions, and to post them in the most appropriate sections, but that might be a lot to ask.

Assuming vroom provides good guidelines on which (if any) writeups to make disappear, those of us with editorial powers can get rid of the worst stuff. (The only thing I've seen that I'd get rid of was the reply to reptile's post. And a lot of blank nodes, but that's a different story.)

If things get out of hand, maybe we should worry about it. Until then, let's worry instead about improving the signal.

If not, perhaps an option to this very thing would be apropos (see, I can spell apropos now).

Something along the lines of:
<input type=checkbox checked>Ignore dumbasses?

Then, a big old honkin' sign on The Monastery Gates saying, "You can post anonymously here, but it will probably be ignored by default."

Would an IP help that much? I'm not sure it would. If it could log the host, maybe, so it would be easy to identify even anonymous monks, but IPs are hard to recognize. I'm afraid I don't have a solution beyond eliminating anonymous posting altogether, and whether that should be done or not I won't say. I've thought about this at length before, and written about it even for some other sites; I don't particularly want to go into that now.

I don't care what the Anonymous Monk said about my code. I was bored and wrote that and thought it had some value, but in that person's opinion it didn't. Too bad they couldn't have been a little nicer about it :)

I think we can all handle an occasional troll here and there, but if such things become common, I really hope we can come up with something to keep this from becoming another slashdot.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

72656B636148206C72655020726568746F6E41207473754A

Man, I'm glad you can keep such a good attitude about the post. I know I was really pissed when I saw it, but maybe I just get carried away too much.

I've had very irritating experiences reading /., chatting on irc, playing qw (with cheaters on the server), etc, and I just don't want that kind of stuff to come over to perlmonks. Ever since this site went up I've felt as if it where a haven. Not really underground but a strong community center. I just don't want to see it spoiled.

At any rate, congratulations on the attitude! I'm going to shut-up now. :o)

Yeah having to put up with people like that my entire life helps. An individual is not what you want to be where I grew up. Anyway, I know what you're saying. I hope we can keep this place sane as it grows.

PS. Thanks for the defense, but ya think you went a little overboard on the compliments? Maybe I was born knowing perl, but I've never even seen a line of ADA in my life ;)

72656B636148206C72655020726568746F6E41207473754A

In a broader sense, though, is the AM really desirable in this forum?

This is a very supportive community. There is very little of the silliness that you would find on, say, slashdot. I would like to keep it that way. It seems, for some odd reason, a very human trait to be nastier when posting anonymously. Rather than asking people to resist temptation, why not remove the temptation? I value the closeness of the community ( not to mention the terrific signal/noise ) more than the ability to post anonymously.

Yes, we can go on at length about anonyminity. I think on forums like /., an honest argument can be made - people who are afraid their bosses, spouses, cow-orkers, whatever will read a post and serious repercusions will occur can post as an AC and still make their point. Is this really a concern of ours? Do we discuss this kind of topic? Are there people here who regularly post as AM so they cannot be recognized? I, obviously, do not have answers but we need to consider this and weigh it against our desire to protect the community.

What if we said AM could not reply to anything, but could start a new thread? This could still be abused - somebody could start a Monks Discussion entitled "mikfire is a real knee biter". But it would at least allow people to ask questions without joining the Monastery.

Mik
Mik Firestone ( perlus bigotus maximus )