http://qs321.pair.com?node_id=11109239


in reply to a lot of the CPAN big hitters have gone

Yes. And this is a natural segue point for something I’ve been trying to articulate. A lot of hackers treat crucial developers like these folks—and others not named, and you—like they are basically… struggling for the right word… coolies. Little deference, little respect, less help, just demands and complaints and lectures about responsibilities and socially acceptable participation when handing over the goodies. This would drive me out. It did drive me away from a major CPAN project a few years ago actually. It might only reveal what a big baby I am but it took just one of these episodes to kill my public participation.

This is not everyone, obviously, or that stark a line. It is more common than it should be though and it frequently comes from devs at my level—seniorish contributors but not core patching, 100 distributions contributors—who should know better and be a defense layer for our “betters.”

I was trying to do something with websockets against a stock/securities trading API last night. I ended up running npm install -g wscat to get going instead of using Perl. I don’t have the chops or time to work out what I want in Perl with existing websocket packages and the JS was trivial to install and use. I harp on it but JS is becoming amazing and it’s mostly not the language, it’s the tools.

Perl’s tool makers are its life blood; its future. They need to be protected and revered, or whatever personal version of that one can summon. Thanksgiving week in the States. I am deeply thankful for every developer who has written code that helps me write mine.

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Re^2: a lot of the CPAN big hitters have gone
by Tux (Abbot) on Nov 26, 2019 at 10:00 UTC

    People are, errr, people. And every person has its/his/her own criteria to join/leave/comment/complain/help.

    I have been driven away from contributing to OpenSource (well, mainly GNU) projects, because I really cannot stand the style/layout they force on contributors. I know that many don't care and many have a strong opinion. Some would say that functionality rules over layout, certainly if the style/layout won't show in the final (binary) product, but to me it is just too ugly to contribute.

    There are also people that don't contribute/join because of code of conducts. There has been an example of an CoC where the contributors were expected to be religious. That for me would be a definite show-stopper, regardless the religion.

    I am well aware that the opposite also is in effect, and that my CONTRIBUTING.md will (for sure) drive possible helpers/contributors away or scare them off. I am willing to bear the consequences.

    If/when I (also) stop and leave the community (for whatever reason), I *hope* the stuff I leave is valued and picked up by someone who cares. I also have the vain hope that this person will value and appreciate my consistency in style and layout, but I am quite confident he/she won't. If I am dead, I cannot be bothered I guess.


    Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn

      You are absolutely one of the developers I owe thanks; and dinner and drinks should you ever turn up at my doorstep. :P

Re^2: a lot of the CPAN big hitters have gone
by cavac (Curate) on Nov 26, 2019 at 13:29 UTC

    Websockets in Perl aren't that hard. I don't have time ATM to make a simple example, but here is my websocket client that "translates" between Net::Clacks and the OBS web/websocket server:

    Hope that helps

    perl -e 'use Crypt::Digest::SHA256 qw[sha256_hex]; print substr(sha256_hex("the Answer To Life, The Universe And Everything"), 6, 2), "\n";'
Re^2: a lot of the CPAN big hitters have gone
by Anonymous Monk on Nov 26, 2019 at 12:06 UTC
    it’s the tools

    I was checking out the source code for wscat and noticed it looked like a trivial port to Perl. Then I searched ddg for "wscat perl" and the first result took me to Net::WebSocket where the changes mention a "wscat.pl demo script" (which it doesn't install, wtf). After installing Net::WebSocket the script wscat.pl failed to run because IO::Events was not installed. After installing IO::Events it still failed because MockReader was not installed. Trying to install MockReader seemed to simply reinstall Net::WebSocket and didn't fix the problem. Then I noticed @INC was modified by wscat.pl so I had to mkdir 'lib' and put MockReader.pm in a /lib relative to the location of wscat.pl. After the hassle, which only took a minute or two, the wscat.pl demo script appears to function and the example given for the javascript version worked perfectly! I guess it would be a good idea for someone to clean up the installation mess and release something useful like App::wscat so you can use Perl!

    > wscat.pl ws://echo.websocket.org
    > hi there
    > hi there
    > are you a happy parrot?
    > are you a happy parrot?
    
    https://github.com/websockets/wscat
    https://metacpan.org/source/FELIPE/Net-WebSocket-0.21/demo/wscat.pl
    

      Thank you very much for digging through that. It’s highly encouraging.

      I may try my hand at adding such an example to Mojolicious, since it would be trivial with those tools.