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Re^6: No votes
by Argel (Prior) on Apr 29, 2009 at 22:03 UTC
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PerlMonks does not exactly have the most intuitive interface. In many ways that's part of its charm. But lets be realistic -- it also makes it harder for new users to figure out how to do things. Even something like accessing your Inbox isn't as intuitive as it could be. So I don't think it's really fair to expect new Monks to quickly become acclimated to the environment. Even more so when English is not the respective Monk's native language, such as the case here where manoj_speed is from India. We also do not know the contents of the message sent by Co-Rion. If he told manoj_speed that he needed to contact the gods then exactly how is he supposed to know how to do that? I have been here over eight years and I think this thread is the first time I have seen "/msg gods". I'm not saying you are wrong -- but it also seems unreasonable to just assume new Monks can easily figure out how to navigate The Monastery.
Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
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We all know that the message from Co-Rion said that it was from Co-Rion and that manoj_speed was able to send a private message to chromatic (but not when the problem was pointed out and feedback was requested, only after days passed and, lacking a response, a privilege was removed). So I don't see how a quirky interface can be blamed here (unless you think using a hyphen in a private /msg is somehow cast as "difficult" by the interface). The first reply here even said that the OP should reply to Co-Rion.
Luckily, the evidence is quite obvious and the excuses completely unconvincing. Had facial expressions been involved here then the excuses would have been met with frank rolling of the eyes and that would've been the end of it in most cases. But on the internet, everybody can fib with a straight face while they can't see how sincere your disbelief is in response.
No, I will not discuss what the evidence was, etc. I wouldn't discuss it at all had manoj_speed not chosen to make the problem public (and, no, I don't see any evidence that making it public was anything other than a dodge). And I still wouldn't have discussed it in public had I not felt that this particular third-party justification needed to be "put down" as not fitting the facts.
Yes, the interface isn't completely intuitive but the interface was successfully used and there was no requirement or even request for "/msg gods" to be used. So that is a lousy justification that doesn't deserve to be propped up.
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My post was talking about new Monks and The Monastery in more general terms. I never said that manoj_speed didn't know how to /msg a user. My point is that experienced Monks often take for granted how confusing things can be here at first (and even more so for those with less experience with the English language).
I am willing to take it on blind faith that the evidence supports one person voting with two different accounts, etc. However, whether the messages sent to those accounts were clear, concise, and easy to understand is another matter. Co-Rion's first post in this thread is not a good indicator -- exactly what is "The reason is jonam resp. ..." supposed to mean??
I decided to comment because experienced Monks are taking the learning curve at The Monastery for granted in this thread. The actions or inactions of manoj_speed are for the most part irrelevant to the point I was making.
Oh, and calling me an "apologist" via the Title is quite beneath you.
Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
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- Is the PerlMonks FAQ not linked prominently enough?
- Where, exactly, are the deficiencies in the PerlMonks FAQ? It seems to me that the FAQ is plenty clear on all of the issues you mention; but I admit that I may be too close to it to see it objectively.
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I've /privmsg'ed several new Monks letting them know their Message Inbox exists after it became obvious they did not know about it. IIRC, our own very savvy ELISHEVA found /msg'ing a usergroup (as opposed to an individual user) neither intuitive nor obvious.
I have, somewhere on my rather long "To Do" list, a notation that it would probably be a good idea to place a "/msg usergroup" link on each usergroup page, like exists currently for plain ol' users. I'm not sure I have the pmdev chops to accomplish this by myself, however. I've certainly not had the time to delve into the idea just recently.
Perhaps I need to do more reading of the site docs with an eye to this specific issue, to try to see if some improvement can be made in my role as SiteDocClan.
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