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An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)

by missingthepoint (Friar)
on Sep 03, 2008 at 05:25 UTC ( [id://708685]=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Greetings.

While pondering a few moments ago, I thought about how knowing the nomenclature of a subculture/technical discipline/field makes the literature of the community in question accessible. This thought was inspired by reading Ovid's use.perl.org journal. Specifically, the post of Aug 29 titled "I am not you. Please keep that in mind.".

This post begins with the line:

You know, it's OK to suggest that I do X instead of Y. There's a good chance that I'll agree with you. However, there's also a damned good chance that I have a reason for doing Y.

He would have lost me there unless I'd read the PM node XY Problem. In this instance, a specific Perl Monks node was the key to understanding another piece of writing.

I suspect that the Monastery has myriad examples of this... excellent, though sometimes dense nodes that would be more accessible to those learning if there were something to say "these other nodes might help you understand this one".

So, how about a new feature: for each node, users above a certain level can input node ID numbers that they think would explain (or make clearer) the current node. When more than X monks select a node (A) as explaining/greatly helping in understanding another (B), node A becomes an "exegetical" node for B. Or perhaps users above a certain high level get their single votes automatically turned into exegetical nodes.

Then, there could be an optionally displayed section (Exegetical Nodes) that lists all the exegetical nodes for the currently displayed node.

I think this would make PM an even more valuable resource for those learning Perl (at whatever stage). For instance, some of the tutorials are beyond me right now. I would love it if I could follow a chain of links until I reach a related node I understand. Then I could just make my way back up the chain, until (hopefully) I can make sense of the original node I was struggling with.

Well, what think ye, monks? :)


email: perl -e 'print reverse map { chr( ord($_)-1 ) } split //, "\x0bufo/hojsfufqAofc";'
  • Comment on An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)

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Re: An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)
by InfiniteSilence (Curate) on Sep 03, 2008 at 15:26 UTC
    I applaud your desire to make PerlMonks better. However, I think this is a very bad idea. A post should reflect your own ideas and concepts. Subtle differences between another node and one of your own can contribute to misunderstanding and frustration on your part (not to mention the 'exegetical' author). This seems a bit like 'forced association by proxy' or, if you want a real-world example, somewhat like a schoolteacher forcing the students to sit in assigned seats. By the way, I hear it is good to practice making one's own ideas clearer.

    Celebrate Intellectual Diversity

      IMNSHO, teachers should be allowed to force students to sit in assigned seats. Is some students can't keep from chit-chatting , they'd better be separated for the class. So that not only them, but also the rest of the class has a bigger chance of learning anything. Freedom is a nice thing, but it doesn't mean people should be allowed to run their cars through the streets at 150mph.

        I agree that teachers should be able to do so, particularly in the case that the students need that in order to behave. I'm not sure teachers above the primary school level should assign all seats as a matter of course for the students who do well enough sitting where they please.

        When I was in school some teachers would force kids to sit where the teacher wanted them, even if the kids who were always hot sat next to the radiator and the kids who were always cold sat next to the drafty windows. That's not helping anyone learn. Most of our teachers would assign us seats until they learned our names, then would let us sit where we pleased. They did once in a while have us all pick new seats just to keep things fresh and surround us with different kids, but we got to pick the new seats too. Kids who couldn't handle sitting where they had chosen would be assigned their seats, which besides cutting down on the problem at hand was a gentle (and gently embarrassing) reminder that the teacher was in charge and we were there to learn.

        Which, perhaps surprisingly, brings me to the topic of the thread. Shuffling people towards information in a mechanistic way instead of allowing discussion achieves a completely different goal. If I want a straightforward recount of the facts from a single voice, I can read a reference. If I want to learn something in a nuanced and contextually relevant way, let me discuss it with people. I always did better in classes in which the teacher discussed things with the students rather than reading their notes for us to take down. I did even better when the other students and I could bounce the ideas off one another, too (preferably without being too disruptive to the others, of course).

        I think the PerlMonks system is very much like a classroom in some ways and like an community workshop in others. Sometimes it's even a support group. I already have access to books, web references, man pages, POD, mailing lists, and Usenet newsgroups for Perl. If I want answers, I can go there. If I want understanding, PerlMonks and playing with the actual code are the two best ways I've found. Letting me talk among the other students just a bit helps me learn, and people who find that too distracting have plenty of resources already.

        They close the streets when Formula 1 comes to town :)
Re: An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)
by cbrandtbuffalo (Deacon) on Sep 03, 2008 at 18:32 UTC
    Hmm, wonder if a nodelet that lists the titles of nodes linked in the responses would be a possible simple version of this ("Nodes linked from this node"). Seems it would be fairly straight-forward to pull those out of responses, and of course the nodelet would be optional. Maybe an addition to the Node Navigator?
      This actually could even be done in the free nodelet with some JavaScript.
Re: An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)
by Anonymous Monk on Sep 03, 2008 at 06:19 UTC
    Hi. Thats what replies are for.

      Nomen est omen.

      (Please explain how replies give you any of the functionality I just described.)


      email: perl -e 'print reverse map { chr( ord($_)-1 ) } split //, "\x0bufo/hojsfufqAofc";'
        You said I suspect that the Monastery has myriad examples of this... excellent, though sometimes dense nodes that would be more accessible to those learning if there were something to say "these other nodes might help you understand this one".

        So, how about a new feature: for each node, users above a certain level can input node ID numbers that they think would explain (or make clearer) the current node. When more than X monks select a node (A) as explaining/greatly helping in understanding another (B), node A becomes an "exegetical" node for B. Or perhaps users above a certain high level get their single votes automatically turned into exegetical nodes.
        That is what replies are for.

Re: An exegetical guide to the Monastery (cross referencing)
by wol (Hermit) on Sep 09, 2008 at 15:15 UTC
    For those who find this node a little difficult to understand, you may find this page useful:

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