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Re: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks

by salva (Canon)
on Jun 09, 2005 at 08:27 UTC ( [id://465005]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks

Mago, ¿e que pasa co resto das linguas faladas no mundo? Non so no Brasil hai xente que non sabe falar o ingles, e se cada un empeza a escribir no idioma que lle pete, isto vai acabar sendo un caos.

A min gustariame que o PerlMonks fose multilingue, pero soportado pola propia aplicacion web, proporcionando as ferramentas necesarias para que cada monxe vexa soamente as mensaxes que poida entender, por exemplo, cunha especie de canles idiomaticos os que un se poida suscribir.

¿Pero quen esta disposto a facelo traballo, eh?

english version:
Mago, and what happens with the other languages spoken over the world? Not only in Brasil are people that can not speek English and if everybody starts writing on his preferred language this will become a mesh.

I would like to have a multilingual PerlMonks, but with support from the web application, with the required tools to let monks only see the messages they can understand, for instance with some kind of language channels.

But, who is gonna do it?

  • Comment on Re: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks

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Re^2: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks
by tlm (Prior) on Jun 09, 2005 at 12:36 UTC

    It's an intriguing idea, but in the end I'd oppose it, because, if it succeeds at all, it would lead to fragmentation, with different sub-monasteries emerging around each language. In other words, I think the value of fostering a sense of community trumps the value of allowing monks to post in the language they are most comfortable with. (BTW, I don't say this out of "anglo-chauvinism"; my first language is not English.)

    An alternative solution would be for those who have a hard time posting in English to post in both languages, like several posters have done in this thread, though I would reverse the order so that their best effort at an English version appears first, followed by the version in their native language, possibly within readmore tags. This is just a idea; I have not really thought it through.

    the lowliest monk

      it would lead to fragmentation, with different sub-monasteries emerging around each language

      Not necessarily. I was faced with this issue when I designed the UN's first web-based discussion forum (with perl naturally) over ten years ago. We decided to have multi-lingual fora where everyone was free to post in their own language and filters which allowed users to read the boards in all languages or only in one. What ended up happening is something similar to what is happening in this very thread. What starts out in one language leaks over to other languages due to the people who speak several languages. There were also many people whose reading fluency was better than their writing fluency (a common occurrence) so that people would end up reading the English and replying in French, etc. And perhaps the most important thing was that the participants, even if they could not all understand each other, had the sense that they were all part of one world, one discussion. (so shoot me, I'm a romatic idealist)

      The really important question for me is the question of inclusivity. I would like this to be a place where people of all levels of language ability could participate. It could even become a way for people to learn some of the tech aspects of English and the other languages. I get by pretty well in French but not with French/Geek since I learned my French long before I knew anything about computers.

      It seems to me that it is no accident that this discussion is sparked by someone from Brazil instead of someone from Portugal or Holland or Germany. Europeans are more likely to know some English than Brazilians are. But the future is in Brazil and Japan, and China and India and Singapore and South Africa and hopefully other places as well. Inclusivity is not just a matter of making accomodations to incude the excluded for the sake of the excluded, it is and will increasingly become a way for the English speaking to broaden their horizons and gain from the diversity of the worldwide open source movement.

      I don't at all pretend that it would be easy to make perlmonks multi-lingual or that it is something we can or should start on immediately. But certainly we need to start thinking about it now, for our own sakes, as well as for the sakes of those who could not participate here otherwise.
      I don't believe this would really lead to fragmentation. Having different PM like independent websites in several languages would, but a multilingual one wouldn't.

      Most monks would still participate on English conversations even if English is not their first language, and so communities born around other languages would not be isolated.

Re^2: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks
by Random_Walk (Prior) on Jun 09, 2005 at 13:27 UTC

    The Mandriva club of Mandriva linux (formerly Mandrake) has a multilingual site. You select the languages you understand in your prefs and only see articles in those tongues. There is also a fairly good effort made to translate articles so a good set are available in most tongues.

    Cheers,
    R.

    Pereant, qui ante nos nostra dixerunt!
Re^2: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks
by ruoso (Curate) on Jun 09, 2005 at 12:12 UTC

    Esta foi uma ótima idéia! Cada monge diria quais idiomas lê e quais idiomas escreve. Então na hora de escrever o node, iria aparecer o textarea para cada idioma que ele sabe escrever, e na hora de exibir os nodes, mostrar apenas nos idiomas que ele consegue ler.

    That was a great idea! each monk would say which languages (s)he reads and which ones (s)he writes. So at the time (s)he's writing the node, it would show one textarea for each language (s)he can write, and when showing the node, showing only the languages (s)he can read.

Re^2: [PT_BR] Escrever em Português no Perlmonks
by mda2 (Hermit) on Jun 10, 2005 at 15:06 UTC

    Este seria um trabalho interessante, afinal recursos que mantenham uma comunidade unida valem a pena serem desenvolvidos.

    Um dos grandes destaques do Perl é justamente a comunidade, que acrescenta recursos e mantem a linguagem viva!

    Dez pequenos grupos isolados não motivam participação, porém um grupo forte, com todos os mecanismos e trabalho já feito para organizar o PerlMonks, com alguns recursos adicionais para filtrar as mensagens, como sugeridos neste thread, como já ocorre em "Newest Nodes" e "Show Unmoderated Content"!

    english version (sorry mistakes - Google + basic review)

    This would be an interesting work, after all resources that keep a joined community are valid the penalty to be developed.

    One of the great prominences of the Perl is exactly the community, that adds resources and keeps the alive language!

    Ten small isolated groups does not motivate participation, however a strong group, with all the mechanisms and work already made to organize the PerlMonks, with some resources you add to filter the messages, as suggested in this thread, as already it occurs in "Newest Nodes" and "Show Unmoderated Content"!

    --
    Marco Antonio
    Rio-PM

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