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(OT) Prayers before battle

by sailortailorson (Scribe)
on Oct 08, 2004 at 22:46 UTC ( [id://397801]=perlmeditation: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

I started this in CB, but it is too large for there.

I've got an opportunity I would like any sane comment on (need not be constructive comment). I have some friends with reasoable money to spend on a retail venture. As the most techie and artistic (and poorest, though not really poor), of the circle of friends, I've been tapped to set up the web page(s).

I can handle the basics of the web page, I welcome the chance to grow and I presume I could conceivably end up with the opportunity to be webmaster, IT guy, or at least have right of first refusal on some of this. The plan is to grow to several stores ( 2 < n < 50), and court a sale to a larger concern and get out. I can't say too much more about that, but I am wondering if anyone know any good resources (books, etc) for management of websites, or any other comment

20041011 Edit by castaway: Changed title from 'Prayers before battle'

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by The_Rabbit (Acolyte) on Oct 09, 2004 at 00:49 UTC

    I am wondering if anyone know any good resources (books, etc) for management of websites

    This is hard question to answer without a bit more knowledge about what type of website you going to be responsible for and what type of skills you already possess. From you post I am assuming you have working knowledge of html, and by virtue of posting this on PerlMonks that you have knowledge of perl :) However, there is no mention about your administrative experience at all. Are you looking for stuff on maintaining databases or webservers? Are you looking for books on how to design layouts or information architecture of websites?

    The plan is to grow to several stores ( 2 < n < 50), and court a sale to a larger concern and get out.

    This statement really concerns me. This makes it sound like growing a retail venture from 2 to 50 stores can happen overnight. To grow from 2 - 50 stores is something that is going to take a long time. So, in taking on this project you are looking at a potentially large time commitment. Maintaining a (e-commerce?) website for a business that large is probably not something that you want to do as a side job. There is a big difference in setting up a website for a friends at-home business and setting up something that is expected to grow into a chain of stores.

    So, I guess the two major questions you have to ask yourself before you take this job is:

    1) What skills do I need to learn before I feel comfortable stepping into this role?
    2) Can I perform this role as a side job without losing my sanity.

    Those two questions are pretty related :) Getting a small business of the ground is a LOT of work, so getting involved is potentially a serious commitment.

    I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm being overly critical with my comments. This is not my intent at all. It just sounds like you might be jumping into something much bigger than you can handle, and because this is a friend's venture can make it trickier to get out if things go wrong.

Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by talexb (Chancellor) on Oct 09, 2004 at 17:30 UTC

    I read Inc. magazine for years until my subscription ran out .. I would say the experience of reading that for a couple of years will give you plenty if ideas of what to do and what not to do.

    Unfortunately there's nothing I can suggest to you that will 'give you' the knowledge that you appear to seek before setting out on this voyage.

    I can recommend that changing your life and/or career should be an evolutionary change. Repurpose your goals gradually, starting thinking withint a different framework. I'll give you an example.

    Long ago, a colleague of mine worked with an incorrigible slacker. After months of whining about his co-worker, he finally shut up and instead tried to develop new ways of working with his colleague, providing help, suggestions, guidance on the project they were working on together. Not surpisingly, the incorrigible slacker suddenly (hah) became a productive, indispensable team member, and the project quality took a big jump up. Everyone was happy.

    My advice is this: don't focus too much on the goal of growing your business to a specific size with the goal of getting bought out. Take care of the small stuff, and growth will happen. With growth will come notice on a wider scale, and with that will come folks interested in buying you out.

    One of my favourite quotes comes from a character played by Robin Williams in Dead Again, where he confronts Kevin Brannagh's character about his smoking. He says, "It's not difficult to quit smoking. Just decide whether you're a smoker or a non-smoker, and be that person." Just decide who you are, and be that person. Words to live by.

    Alex / talexb / Toronto

    "Groklaw is the open-source mentality applied to legal research" ~ Linus Torvalds

Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by Theo (Priest) on Oct 10, 2004 at 01:10 UTC
    Perl for Web Site Management is the only book that pops to mind and I really can't assess it's suitability to your task.

    -Theo-
    (so many nodes and so little time ... )

Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by Scarborough (Hermit) on Oct 11, 2004 at 08:32 UTC

    My advice having been in your situation, is make sure you get your contract/deal with the others sorted out and on papper before you start. As someone who has set up a commercil web site which still produces a good income, of which I see nothing ("I'll pay you the big bonus when another company buys us out" - it's not likly to happen) and heard at least 5 times in the last 2 years "you do the techie work for free because this idea can't fail" (They have usually don't get off the ground), I'm now far happier and welthier taking the corprate dollar or pound in my case.

    Sorry if I sound negative, I guess I'm just advising a little caution, you could end up doing all the work and getting a small share.

Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by ggg (Scribe) on Oct 11, 2004 at 17:14 UTC
    I would strongly recommend automating as much of the site as possible right from the get-go. I am redesigning a web site now and have put the entire look and feel aspect into one short perl script that allows me to generate new pages that are just like all the other pages or to change how the whole site looks. Other automations enable me to change the navigation menus for the whole site in just two files and have it apply globally. There is much more I could do in the future with templates and databases when I learn how to use them.

    The more you rely on Perl to do your heavy lifting, the easier your job will be.

    ggg
      ggg,

      Thank you for your comments. I agree and am taking the approach you advise.

      I don't really know what is meant by a template except that is a CSS. I would like to know more.

      Does any of your websites face outward to where I could see them? I would love to see any of your scripts if it is OK to share. I will understand completely if it is not.

      I have some experience with using mySQL and MS Access for a web facing db. One point of advice I can give is that it is fairly easy to set up input for mySQL using MS Access forms against a linked mySQL table, thereby easing any immediate need to architect web based input for a single administrator.

      Of course this only works when input from end users is not critical, but it can buy you some time for managing the development and getting some intermediate test data in place. I found MySQL and Perl for the Web by DuBois (New Riders) to be invaluable for getting up to speed on core issues.

      Thank you.
Re: (OT) Prayers before battle
by sailortailorson (Scribe) on Oct 11, 2004 at 18:27 UTC
    Thanks all,

    for thoughtful comment, and for an honest assessment of what I have said. My response is long, but it seems to need to be.

    In regard to any questions about experience and background. I am a Software QA tester by trade. I have supervised people before, but never as a manager (in this industry). I have been pretty much an individual contributor over the 16 years I have done this, always in a responsible position of a lead or sole QA on special projects. I began learning the CGI side of Perl, HTML, etc, about 3 years ago, after being very frustrated with passing around M.S. Office documents to communicate testing methods and gather the results of testing.

    I have set up several informational / interactive intranet sites for managing the testing of complicated internationalization aspects of software. I have been able to pick up the skills I needed as I go, and I view this project as potentially extending that trend. The skills I bring are a working familiarity with Perl, mySQL, CGI, a good eye for design and a strong ability to execute art quickly if need be. I have some nascent and growing Javascript skills. I am extremely confident in Perl to serve as a toolbox for almost all needs, having found that I can scriptkiddy my way into a new module and quickly learn the workings.

    Nevertheless, the web sites I set up required very little maintenance, being internally facing. So, one place I really lack, I know, is in any working knowledge of firewalls and web security.

    The type of website I an looking at now is actually two types. One will be an external storefront website, with some limited catalog and some engagement booking, the other an internal website operating behind a firewall, primarily for the entertainment of clients.

    I can't think of any way to go into any detail about these without revealing more than I should, but I can say that securing the clients from untrammeled web surfing is paramount, but we don't want to present too limited a view of the World.

    Except for the security and firewall deficiencies (which I am trying to augment) I view my skills as fine for getting a core website started, and maybe extending it for awhile. Realistically, beyond that, and if things go as planned, I would have to hire talent.

    My specific questions are whether Perl really will support all the needs of the kind of site I (ever so vaguely) describe, and how to administrate it. However, I appreciate any comment on this situation, including all the comments given so far regarding formalizing business relations with people and personal readiness.

    The kind of sources I am looking for are ones that advise on the overall, high level management of all issues relating to the creation and maintenance of any website. If they slant toward Perl, that is much to the good. I have started noticing some materials by a person named Ashley Friedlein. They look very good, but I have little experience with which to judge them. Also, obviously, I have an immediate need to come up to speed on the technicalities of security and even social issues when it comes to use/misuse of the internet.

    In regard to the other comments, not answered above: The plan to grow the chain and the court purchase is premised on the expectation that if this business grows at all, it will grow extremely rapidly. One of the milestones will be to assess whether we are headed toward this goal, and probably terminate the project if not. The principals are not in this for the long haul.

    My problem is always time, so I am quite sensitive to the comments about how much work this will take. I put in a full day at work, and then will have this to do too, along with not wanting to ignore a family completely. Part of me says, don't do this thing, unless there is guaranteed to be a big payoff in a short time. The other part of me acknowledges it to be a LOT of work. Part of me says, if this thing really gets going, maybe I can leave my present position and do it full time. I am beginning to think that is unlikely

    I think the reason that they want me involved is that I have always come through on technical advice, and maybe some other things that indicate I am pretty smart and have the right talent set for this.

    I can see from my own comments, and yours that there is a lot to be concerned about with partners. I can't really say anything about them except the main guy is ruthless in business, and somewhat so in personal matters, but actually has a kind of nice-guy streak. He seems to have involved his friends from the point of view of both taking advantage of talent and experience, relying on people he can trust, and some perhaps small bit about helping friends.

    I am involved primarily for the web site, which is considered key and central. A lot of other tech slanted matters are coming my way too. He (the main guy) is not exactly clueless when it comes to technology, but depends on others for any insight, and can extend those insights to new applications in limited ways, not with confidence. Still, he wants to be in control of all money/infrastructure decisions.

    I want him to start characterizing or confirming things like the point of sale components we need, whether I can start asking for a particular firewall, etc. I am not getting anything back from him but a request to continue funneling him whatever information I have and a verbal comment that we won't actually acqure any of these assets for a couple months ( and a few months before we are scheduled to open). This is beginning to ring some warning bells for me, but it may be quite within the bounds of normal for someone who is a main investor, spearhead of a venture.

    Since I am only investing time/talent, I am not too worried. But I think I need to think about the up and down side before I contribute so much time and talent that I or my family feel cheated later.

    I think that the least benefit I can expect from this is the development of my web skills, and the increased insight from experience of starting a huge project. I ought to be able to at least point to the web site, and say, I did that. Also, if it goes bad or good, no one, including I, can say that I did not try (the latter thing is trivial now, but will be very important later).

    The most benefit is that I could be somewhat influential an on the inside of a big venture, that lasts for a couple of years, with all the skill and increase in skill and whatever money that would bring. Also, the main guy has other ideas for which he would need tech advice.

    I think that the worst that could possibly happen is that I somehow miss some critical aspect of web security and somehow make mud of my name, and any monetary penalties that entails. I think I can minimize this liklihood to be vanishingly small.

    I think the most likely upside is that I will become useful on web and some tech issues, but not be a real insider. If so, I think it could still be enough to pay for some fancy tools, or maybe enough to pay for a couple of college educations for kids. It could also be some serious money (as if college were not) , but let's not jinx it. I might be able to use Flash and some other technologies that have been out of my reach so far.

    That leaves the most likly downside that I may depart from this venture with some kind of sour taste, due to some perceived/real unfairness about resources provided me, money, comparative contribution, resources etc. I think the way to manage this is to give it my best, keep a good attitude and burn no bridges behind me, and be very good at what I do. However, I believe I should accept no substitute for the tools, contracts and other written terms that characterize the business relationship. I cannot get all these agreements right now, because we are friends who have just recently met to begin this. But, I think I should probably begin to make it clear that increased involvment will depend on these tools and agreements, and make it quietly obvious that I am losing interest as soon as we pass any deadlines that I set.

    The_Rabbit, I think my comments above were mostly addressed to you. My general sense is that I need to form a more concrete question in order to form my own good answer. I don't think I am done forming all the questions and obviously, they start to move so far off topic that they don't belong here. However yours and the other comments are just the kind of thing I am looking for.

    talexb, I liked your comment about "Take care of the small stuff, and growth will happen. With growth will come notice on a wider scale, and with that will come folks interested in buying you out." and "Just decide whether you're a smoker or a non-smoker, and be that person". In my dealings with the world, I have gone from being a sort of disenfranchised working class kid to having a pretty nice life. I have really had to learn just to 'be' the person I want to be. I've had to minimize defensiveness, and learn to assume that people are addressing me with my good points, talents in mind. Sometimes that's been fiction, but it is fiction that brought better fact.

    Theo, I am going to check out Perl for web site management. It seems targeted to my central question.

    Scarborough, I think you can read between the lines on what I am saying (and not saying) about the partners and will take your message to heart.

    Thanks all.

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