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RE: RE: running with scissors - part 2 (sigh)

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Aug 01, 2000 at 09:42 UTC ( #25411=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to RE: running with scissors - part 2 (sigh)
in thread "running with scissors"

That's a point well taken about holding monks to a higher standard. I don't know if those of us with higher ranks should be treated any differently from the newest monk to register. (We ought to understand the way the monastery works better than recent supplicants, but that's not what I mean.)

I think merlyn is really trying to figure out what to do here. It's not comp.lang.perl.misc, with a huge FAQ, a supporting cast of thousands, and years and years of history. It's not #perl on Efnet, with its own unique blend of rules and conventions. It's not perl5porters, for better or worse.

It's unique, because it's more egalitarian... it hasn't been around long enough to develop many customs and traditions. The traditions we do have, about trying to help people where they're at, about respecting other people, and about giving the best solution we know how -- even if we're corrected by a dozen other monks in the next thirty seconds -- these traditions we need to encourage. We need to apply them equally to everyone.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that merlyn is really trying to fit in -- why else start a top level discussion node? By all means, suggest ways he can fit in. Give him feedback, example posts comparing posts you consider helpful to posts you consider harmful (if that's not too strong a word).

Just don't push away a fellow monk with a wealth of knowledge and experience who's trying to fit in and understand the mostly unwritten and still evolving rules here. We all get the chance to make mistakes because we can learn from them. Please don't deny the opportunity for personal growth.

  • Comment on RE: RE: running with scissors - part 2 (sigh)

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Buzzcutbuddha: RE: running with scissors - part 2 (sigh)
by buzzcutbuddha (Chaplain) on Aug 01, 2000 at 16:02 UTC
    I honestly don't think that the majority of us want to push Merlyn away. I would love to learn more from him. He has a wealth of knowledge about Perl I wish I could download Matrix style right into my noggin.

    That said, there seems to be a lot of craziness that goes on with having Merlyn contribute here.

    He shares his personal life with us, and like 99% of people, there are messes in his personal life, and that makes some people uncomfortable. Sometimes it makes me uncomfortable.

    I don't want him to go. I have learned about CGI and Cargo Cult programming, etc from his posts, and I wish him luck with his legal troubles.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that we have a culture that aims to help newbies and allows for those shy and uncertain in Perl to have a voice and get the answers they need, and I encourage and cherish that culture.
RE: RE: RE: running with scissors - part 2 (sigh)
by Ozymandias (Hermit) on Aug 01, 2000 at 10:09 UTC
    I think people hold merlyn to a higher standard for two related reasons; the first, he is who he is, one of the "stars" of the Perl community. Like it or not, we expect more out of those people than the average Tom, Dick, or Harry. The second is directly related to that; merlyn has more XP than anyone on the site, including vroom. Whether you agree with that or not, you have to agree that the fact he has it makes him different from the rest of the Monks.

    - email Ozymandias
      I have to respectfully disagree, Ozy.

      The fact that Merlyn is a <insert positive superlative here> expert in Perl doesn't free him from all the foibles that come with being human.

      If anything, I'm inclined to accept more, not less, foibles from Randal because he adds soooo much to Perlness of this Community.

      Update: s/soooo much Perlness/expertise and knowledge/

      Clarification: I would cut less slack for a less-than-tactful Monk if his posts didn't benefit the PM community or Perl programming ability.

        Then we shouldn't pretend that it DOES make him different. You might be willing to accept more foibles from someone simply because they're famous; I'm not.

        Why does merlyn have 1,000,000+ XP? Because he's Just Plain Folks, or because he's a star in the Perl community? If it's because he's just plain folks, then I've got a bucket full of people around here to nominate who answer more questions in a better manner but have a mere 3,000 XP, or 1,000 XP, or 500 XP. But that's not the reason. He has that XP because he is Randal. He got it for being a superstar. Are you saying that that carries no responsibilities to the very people that made him a star? I own some of his books. I read his work. I am a part of the crowd of people who make him the superstar that he is, and because of that, he owes me. He owes me the respect and the courtesy and the decency to ACT like a superstar.

        Think about it for a moment; who is the one person who represents Perl more than any other user here? When these new users come in here, they are looking to learn about Perl. Whether you like how they do it or not is irrelevent, they are here to learn to be like you. Now, what would you prefer them to see? A reasonable, well-intentioned community of people who help each other write better code? Or would you prefer they be slammed for making the mistakes a beginner is always going to make?

        - email Ozymandias

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