Amen to that graff. It's not about XP folks. It's about learning Perl and gaining knowledge. It means a lot to me when I gain a level but it is not why I am here. I would almost dare to say no one here thinks XP is the all powerful force at PM. PM is about collecting information about Perl and sharing it, not XP. I think we could work on it but it is such an inferior issue I think that we are fine like we are, one big community of people who use Perl some way or another.