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srand(time^$$) is bad.

by Abigail-II (Bishop)
on Aug 07, 2002 at 09:34 UTC ( [id://188268]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Multi-Threaded Elevator Simulator

While scanning your code, I couldn't help noticing that you wrote:
# this is as good a time as any to seed rand() srand(time ^ $$);
This is actually a bad seed. Very old Camels suggested this, but even the Camel-II warns about. The problem is that time ^ $$ == (time + 1) ^ ($$ + 1) surprisingly often. Below I quote from a post I made to comp.lang.perl.misc in March 1996 which analysis the problem, and which eventually lead to Perl using a much more "random" seed. The post shows how often time ^ $$ == (time + 1) ^ ($$ + 1).
Write both time and $$ as binary numbers. Suppose both time and $$ end + with a 0 followed by n 1's (n >= 0). Then the bit patterns are: time: t_k t_(k-1) ... t_(n+1) 0 1 ... 1 $$: s_k s_(k-1) ... s_(n+1) 0 1 ... 1 hence, the bit pattern of time^$$ is: t_k^s_k t_(k-1)^s_(k-1) ... t_(n+1)^s_(n+1) 0 0 ... 0. Now, look at the bit patterns of time + 1 and $$ + 1: time+1: t_k t_(k-1) ... t_(n+1) 1 0 ... 0 $$+1: s_k s_(k-1) ... t_(k+1) 1 0 ... 0 XORing time+1 and $$+1 gives: t_k^s_k t_(k-1)^s_(k-1) ... t_(n+1)^s_(n+1) 0 0 ... 0, which equals ti +me^$$. It is easily seen that if time ends with a 0 followed by n 1's, and $$ + ends with a 0 followed by m 1's (n <> m, wlog assume n < m), that then bit +n + 1 (counted from the right) of time^$$ will differ from bit n + 1 of (tim +e+1)^($$+1). Now, how often do time and $$ end with the same number of 1's? If each + bit of time and $$ has a 0.5 chance of being 1 or 0, the following holds: Let Pt(n) be the chance time ends with a 0 followed by n 1's. Then Pt(n) = 1/2^(n+1). Similary, Ps(n) = 1/2^(n+1); Ps(n) being the chance $$ ends with a 0 followed by n 1's. Let Q(n) be the chance BOTH time and $$ end with a 0 followed by n 1's +. Since Pt and Ps are independent, we have: Q(n) = Pt(n) * Ps(n) = 1/2^(2n+2) = (0.25)^(n+1). To get the total chance time^$$ equals (time+1)^($$+1), we need to take a summation over all possible values of n. So, let Q be the chanc +e time^$$ == (time+1)^($$+1). Then we have: Q = Sigma_{n=0}^{k} Q(n) = Sigma_{n=0}^{k} (0.25)^(n+1) = Sigma_{n=1}^{k+1} (0.25)^n. where k is the number of bits in an integer. Hence Q = (0.25 - 0.25^(k+1))/0.75, which goes to 1/3 when k -> oo. So, in almost one third of the cases, time^$$ equals (time+1)^($$+1). (In the above analysis, ^ is used in 3 different roles: - as the xor function, - as the power function, - in the LaTeX way. I hope the context makes it clear which case applies)
Abigail

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Re: srand(time^$$) is bad.
by theorbtwo (Prior) on Aug 07, 2002 at 09:49 UTC

    Also, on newer perls, rand() will seed for you if it hasn't been seeded yet, using a good seed.


    Confession: It does an Immortal Body good.

      Ah, well that makes things much easier. Since this program requires 5.8.0 I can just drop the srand() call altogether.

      Thanks!
      -sam

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