Re: don't { use Perl }
by Abigail-II (Bishop) on Jun 10, 2002 at 13:56 UTC
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Oh, I certainly didn't say there is no value in knowing more
languages. But the added value of knowing more goes down
quickly. That is, you get more value out of knowing your
first language than out of knowing your second, which has
more value than knowing your third, etc.
I also made the exception for "small domain" languages.
Languages that are suited to do a specific task very well.
Examples of "small domain" languages are TeX, sed,
sed, gnuplot, but also "languages inside languages", like
printf formats, pack formats.
Maybe it's just the way I work, but generally when I need to
solve a problem, I first think up an algorithm, and a general
outline of the program. Only then I write a program. It will
mostly be in Perl (because that's the language I like), but it
will lead to a similar program as the one I would have written
in, for instance, C. Details will certainly differ, but not
the approach.
Abigail | [reply] [d/l] [select] |
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Re: Re: Re: don't { use Perl }
by Anonymous Monk on Jun 10, 2002 at 15:05 UTC
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The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (on linguistic determism) has been either
refuted outright (in its strong version), or shown to be essentially
devoid of content (weak version). In terms of programming languages,
you do not have to use (or to have ever even learned) a functional
programming language to apply the concepts of functional programming
(and s/functional/OO/). The programming language you choose (meaning
general purpose, not specialized niche languages here) doesn't limit
the solution set so much as it limits the solution set that can be
expressed naturally in that language. Think about it: C is not an OO
language, nor does it have hashes as a primary type; but with it you
can write new languages that do.
If anything, the Sapir-Whorf hyposthesis is simply backwards: What and
how we think shapes our language. The Innuit may have more words for
snow (but nowhere near the 40 or so claimed by some reports, more
like 7 to 10), but not more concepts or recognitions of different
kinds of snow. We just require more descriptive phrases where their
language uses simple or compound words. When differences in snow
types are a more important part of daily life, one might expect such
huffman-like encodings to be reflected in the language.
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It seems to me that theories of the spoken word have little value in the arena of programming languages. Language theory assumes that the speaker and the listener are on the same level: they both speak the same language. Programming languages are advanced constructs translated into the language of a very fast, restricted yet capable idiot.
()-()
\"/
`
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Not at all. Just because my program is translated into a machine
language to run does not mean the machine is the only listener, nor
even the primary listener, nor even a listener at all in any
reasonable application of the word. The listeners of programming
languages are humans. To think otherwise is to fail to understand why
we would bother to create higher languages above the machine level in
the first place.
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You're wrong about the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, at least inasmuch as you imply that it is so generally considered disproved. This is still an active area of debate and experimental research in some lingustic circles (specifically, those focusing on "embodied" cognitive linguistics, a.k.a. "West coast" cog. ling.), cf. Language and Thought (D. Slobin).
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Perhaps I was a little broad with my pen. The SW hypothesis is
generally considered refuted in its strong form. Its weak form
continues to be investigated and does raise interesting questions
in the cognitive sciences. But the weak form is really nothing at all
like the strong form of the hypothesis, the weak form merely posits
an interaction between language and thought, the strong form asserts
that language is a limiting factor in the interaction.
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Re: Re: Re: don't { use Perl }
by Sweeper (Pilgrim) on Jun 11, 2002 at 05:42 UTC
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If "Language shapes the way
we think, and determines what we can think about.",
how can it happen that from time to time a new
concept emerges out of the blue? | [reply] |