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Re: A question of copyright law an how it affects web templates

by tjh (Curate)
on Feb 18, 2002 at 20:27 UTC ( [id://146241]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to A question of copyright law an how it affects web templates

ditto: IANAL

If the copyright issues, painfully raised by the net, in the U.S. aren't unresolved enough, the international implications are intense as well.

Some info on copyrights and fair use can be found Here as well as thousands of other places.

Not to make this any worse but the issues surrounding patent law have become incredibly obfuscated as well.

In fact, your example of the template issue may currently be affected by patent issues. Not a direct example, but within the last few days British Telecom has said they will seek a claim regarding hyperlink technology on the premise that they have a patent on it!

The nefarious 'method patent' has likewise screwed things up. The boobs at the U.S. patent office didn't know that they didn't know (hmm, that's much too passive; let me re-phrase): The boobs at the patent office who couldn't constructively realize they didn't understand the simplest things about the web allowed Amazon.com to patent "one-click shopping" ferchrissakes...

Not that I have any opinions about this or anything... :)

Now, where's my original art on "Here Docs"?

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Re (tilly) 2: A question of copyright law an how it affects web templates
by tilly (Archbishop) on Feb 19, 2002 at 03:18 UTC
    Go easy on the boobs at the Patent office.

    When you have people being paid $30K/year who are rewarded based on how many patents they approve, you have to expect systematic abuse. And unless you are willing to rectify the system by volunteering for one of those jobs, don't be quick to blame the people applying the rubber stamps.

    The system as a whole is seriously broken at every level. But that doesn't mean that you should waste energy on incompetents who are only there because they can't get anything better in life.

      All true tilly, thanks for the reminders. I do have sympathy for anybody expected to do such a significant job with such long-term ramifications, especially when they're not being trained, have no apparant working system to reasonably and/or quickly resolve the lack of knowledge they must have to confront with every application in a limitless number of fields.

      In this particular case, my real beef is that even a modicum of knowledge could have indicated the silliness of the approval. That beef extends when whoever is responsible, the people working the claims and their supervisors, budget authorities, and others, don't fight to increase their knowledge before making such bellweather decisions.

      They should at least be able to realize when they don't know enough, and act to increase their knowledge, or get advice or issue RFC's...

      Ignorance is sometimes the culprit, but the devil is in the failure to cure the knowledge gap. Feeling stupid (which one shouldn't) by asking questions isn't near as fatal as increasing stupidity by not asking, and by not doing one's own research.

      On the job, we work to train as much and as often as we can, especially on-the-fly, to help ourselves. It is a constant, uphill effort. Sometime it seems that none of us know enough often enough. The industry environment, the technologies, the business models and needs, are all moving targets. It's working out fine, but it is amazing how much new there is to know and succeed with.

      Sometimes I wonder if the complexity, expense (including expenses to defend yourself after you've succeeded in a patent or other IP ownership) and 'broken-ness' of the patent/trademark/copyright isn't really a very good component in explaining the success of open source projects.

      Note on the original post in thread:

      Advice, passing conversation and reading various publications have led others and myself to think the following about intellectual property protections:

      - Overall design, meaning the look and feel, may fall under "trade dress" protections.
      - We assume that content is owned by the author.
      - Our original content is owned by us. We assume that if we rewrite someone else's writing, by and large we're protected, since we wrote it. However, this is highly suspect and present some risk, as well as damage to one's honor...

      - Owning the HTML-based presentation on a web site probably falls under 'trade dress' as above, but the configuration and patterns within the HTML structure are simply usage of a published standard and not protectable.

      - Back-end code we've written to support any interface, web or not, is ours.

      - Whether a web page is 'one object' and copyright-able could be debatable. If it contains the works of others, appropriate attributions must be given, and in many cases, permission to use must be obtained (research 'fair use').

      Is any of this useful? I dunno. YMMV. It's certainly not any kind of useful advice, except to maybe take a stab at pointing towards other research to do. Hope it helps though.

        Who are "we" and under what circumstances was this written?

        As I was recently reminded (long story), of the fact that in New York State there are three classes of employee. One is a contract employee. Unless the contract says otherwise, any work produced for your contract is a work for hire and is owned by the customer. Published articles often take this form. The second type is an hourly employee. Anything you do doing work hours is owned by your employer. If you are not paid by piecework and you don't see a timeclock, then you are a professional employee. Whether or not you realize it, everything you do your employer has first claim on. (A lot of people are professional employees but don't realize this. Friends tell me that the resulting legal issues have yet to be properly considered by the open source community...)

        So if you are a consultant and your contracts aren't clear about it, you likely don't have any rights to the work you did. For details, talk to a lawyer, which I am not.

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