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Re^3: Reaped: Re: why Perl5 will never die

by kikuchiyo (Hermit)
on Oct 30, 2018 at 18:35 UTC ( [id://1224925]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: Reaped: Re: why Perl5 will never die
in thread why Perl5 will never die

It was I who posted that reply, and not because I'm an anonymous coward, but because I did not have my perlmonks login with me on that laptop.

I'm not going to insist to have my post un-reaped, although I stand by my opinion. However, I do see several problems with its deletion.

First, I object to the reason that it was "unhelpful and made by an anon coward" for two reasons: I don't think that it's unhelpful (it may be harsh, but I think it was necessary), and I don't see why it matters that it was posted (nominally) by Anonymous. Perlmonks is (used to be? only I imagined it to be?) one of the relatively few places on the Internet where opinions were evaluated based on their merit alone, decoupled from the person who expressed them. If posts can now be unilaterally, arbitrarily deleted, just because someone feels that its contents don't agree with them and because it was posted by an anonymous user, that leads straight away into the kind of echo chamber where meaningful discussion is no longer possible or even desirable.

Second, I probably don't matter. But if you treat better programmers than me like this, people who are willing and able to contribute code and effort to reduce the gap that exists between Perl and the rest of the world (and I maintain that such a gap exists), abusing and silencing them, then they are just going to shrug and leave, never to look back. Do we want that? To chase away the best of us, just because they disagree?

Right now, we, the Perl community are like those lungfish that first crawled out from the sea. We've found nice, warm puddles near the shores for ourselves, and that was a great achievement for its time. But since then we've stayed in those puddles, and we stubbornly keep telling ourselves that it's fine this way, all the while others have moved on, diversified and colonized the rest of the continent. And we refuse to even look up and acknowledge that. I find that sad.

I might have used stronger words than strictly necessary - I wrote that post in a break of a conference where I was forced to learn about a whole new array of concepts, tools and processes I had no idea about. I still consider myself a Perl programmer, that's what I do professionally, but stepping outside my usual circles, being forced to look at this whole wide world I was never even aware of, made me think, made me re-evaluate the value of my skills, my professional future. And then I checked Perlmonks, and I saw the same old, tired "Perl is not dead" argument. I replied, and I'm not sorry.

Finally, you write that my post was "inaccurate, profane, fallacy ridden, cryptoantiperl6". I think none of this is true. Please provide specific examples for each accusation.

  • Comment on Re^3: Reaped: Re: why Perl5 will never die

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Re^4: Reaped: Re: why Perl5 will never die
by LanX (Saint) on Oct 30, 2018 at 21:54 UTC
    I'm the one who defended your post, I would have voted keep.

    I accept that your profanity about "shit" was an emotional reaction.

    Regarding AM: trolls like to provoke anonymously because their pattern is not recognized and they profit from the doubt surrounding their person.

    I agree concerning the perception of Perl, I had similar observations already years ago.

    Perl lost most of academia to Python, that's why, they use it for glueing the C-libraries in "modern" ML.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
    Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

      Well, thanks.

      Perl lost most of academia to Python

      Yes, completely true, in the broader context of scientific data processing in general. Even in bioinformatics, which was a traditional stronghold of Perl, university courses now teach Python (and the few holdouts in backwater universities teach from decades-old, Perl 4 style textbooks, which is arguably worse than nothing).

      I have half a mind to write a detailed post with statistics like counting the mentions of Perl vs. Python and the rest in texts of millions of articles on ArXiv.org, the number of new Perl vs. other project on github in a yearly breakdown, the number of users and posts/day related to Perl vs. others on stackoverflow, reddit and the likes, but seeing the reactions to my original outburst - should I even bother?

        > I have half a mind to write a detailed post with statistics...

        Devoting your time to improving Perl's image, writing the Killer App, or even learning Python would be more beneficial. The interested can read TIOBE index or StackOverflow Developer Survey.

        ($q=q:Sq=~/;[c](.)(.)/;chr(-||-|5+lengthSq)`"S|oS2"`map{chr |+ord }map{substrSq`S_+|`|}3E|-|`7**2-3:)=~y+S|`+$1,++print+eval$q,q,a,
      When did perl ever have academia? Contend for academia?
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