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Re^3: Curious about Perl's strengths in 2018

by LanX (Cardinal)
on Apr 15, 2018 at 21:05 UTC ( #1212947=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: Curious about Perl's strengths in 2018
in thread Curious about Perl's strengths in 2018

Dave, with all due respect.

It doesn't make Perl's management look efficient, if it takes about 20 ok lets say 15 years to implement experimental subroutine signatures, and this only including positional and no named parameters.

Cheers Rolf
(addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
Wikisyntax for the Monastery

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Re^4: Curious about Perl's strengths in 2018
by dave_the_m (Monsignor) on Apr 15, 2018 at 22:57 UTC
    It doesn't make Perl's management look efficient
    It's very little to do with management (efficient or otherwise), and mainly to do with lack of manpower. Specifically there's a whole bunch of stuff I am aware of that needs pinning down and then implementing, before signatures can become non-experimental.

    As one example, consider the behaviour of @_ within the body of a signatured sub. Should it still contain the full argument list (but then you incur the cost of setting up and restoring @_ for each call), or be empty (you still have a setup/restore cost), or be untouched and still have the value it had before the current function was called? Should accessing / modifying @_ trigger a warning, or even be fatal? What happens when a function is called via the argless &foo; mechanism - for each of the combinations of caller/callee being an ordinary/signatured sub? If @_ isn't populated, how can the sub tell whether a particular arg got passed a real undef value or no value? Should the behaviour of @_ be controllable? If so, should that be via a pragma or some new syntax within the signature? (Those are all rhetorical questions - I don't want to get into a debate about signature semantics here.)

    Until all that has been decided and implemented, we don't know how @_ will change, so can't mark it as non-experimental.

    Deciding and implementing all that is currently in my balliwick, and I only have so much time.

    Dave.

      I agree it's complicated and respect your wish to not discuss semantics here.

      But that's not what I meant with management.

      Function signature would have a bigger positiv impact on beginners than our declarations or defined-or // operators (to name some very popular added features not talking about smart match ~~ )

      It doesn't seem like P5P (or whoever else has the final word) does strategical planning.

      I'm not attacking you or asking you to invest more.

      I'm just stating a lack of market thinking.

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery

        It doesn't seem like P5P (or whoever else has the final word) does strategical planning.
        Well it doesn't really, because perl is almost entirely a volunteer effort. The pumping could decree that signatures is our highest priority, but if a volunteer decides that doing signatures is too big and complicated and scary and beyond their ability (and it will be but for a small handful of people) and instead it would be fun to implement defined-or, should the pumpkin fire that volunteer or accept the dor patch into core?

        Anyway we barely have the manpower to just fix existing bugs, without adding shiny new features.

        Dave.

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