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Re^4: Who is your favorite scientist and why?

by james28909 (Deacon)
on Aug 29, 2017 at 20:50 UTC ( #1198304=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^3: Who is your favorite scientist and why?
in thread Who is your favorite scientist and why?

im going to check out the links and videos soon, but scientifically, there is no way to prove nor disprove a god or creator (atleast without viewing those links first ;) ). but given the specifics, with how well everything works together in this universe, i would say it has to have some form of creationalism or purpose.

now i am not talking jesus type of creationalism and/or creationalism just for humans. and i cannot put my finger on what i mean exactly. but just look around you and view the beauty of life, it isnt by pure chance and randomness that flowers smell so good. for a plant to be beautiful and have a good smell, to me, means that it was for enjoyment and satisfaction. just like the trees that bear fruit or the stuff that grows out of the ground that is good for us, i think they are called vegetables. could you imagine humans evolving on a planet with none of those things? haha nope. what is the purpose of fruit and the birds and the bees, and well, the whole ecosystem? and thats just our planet, which is one spec... hell it aint even a spec, were like 1 quadrillionth of a spec. there are people who think it was randomness? or was just because we were in the habitable zone in our solar system? just because we are in a habitable zone, does not mean things should have evolved together like it has.

i know it probably sounds crazy, and quite honestly, i probably didnt explain it the greatest way i could have, but hopefully the point gets across. something wants life to live and it isnt a fluke or randomness. i dont know what it is or why it wants that, but it does. and something as simple as fruit in the trees and flowers that are beautiful and smell good... are just a few things that lead me to believe in a creator. and like i said, i am not referring to "religion".

now i am not going to try to speculate (anymore) who was the creator or why, or when or how. or even where... because quite honestly, i am still not sure if i am really here or not.
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Re^5: Who is your favorite scientist and why?
by Arunbear (Prior) on Aug 31, 2017 at 10:56 UTC

    We respond to the beauty and aroma of plants because we evolved to have a mutually dependant relationship with them. This is explored beautifully in this documentary (How to Grow a Planet, by Prof. Iain Stewart). There's no need for a supernatural explanation when a simpler one will do the job.

      i am about to watch the documentary, because i love these kind of things and have already watched the neil degrasse tyson videos posted earlier, and have watched many hours of him before, and he is a very smart individual to say the least. (i love science and questioning everything, to the point it pisses people off haha) and in my findings there are no simple answers. we had to evolve for millions? of years to be able to do the things we do as a culture.

      but i still offer my point of view as to what was the point of plants that bear nutrition? i mean we get nutrition from eating other animals, so why do we need these plants? what is the point of the relationship of human/plants when nutrition can be got elsewhere? its also easier (and quicker) to shoot a deer and field dress it than it is to spend three or four months growing something that will not have that much nutrition as compared to another animal. if you want to say that it is a "relationship" that we have with plants, then you are right, and now we have the ability to make these plants bear far more nutrition than they usually do. but what was the point of something growing into an edible delectable delight? is it possible that a plant seen a human or being and thought "oh i bet that being would like it if i had delicious treats growing from me so they can rip them off and eat them", no... not in a world that is based on survival unless the plant is a very empathetic plant and cares so much, about humanity or life, that it sacrifices its children for the betterment of life.

      not to mention that alot of these plants and such TASTE great not only to humans, but to many other animals/mammals/reptiles ect. which boosts moral and other aspects.

      Lets take a look at this seemingly simple problem from another angle. almost EVERYTHING on this planet has some form of nutritional value/calories. you could literally pick up a rock, and if your teeth were strong enough and had the guts that could stand it, you could eat rocks until your heart was content and if nothing else, you would digest the micro-organisms found on and inside the rock. or tree bark. if caught in a pinch, you could literally boil tree bark and get some calorie intake. does all of these sound optimum to you? nope, didnt think so... so lets turn our heads back to the plants that are delicious. why are they delicious? maybe to keep us from eating tree bark and rocks? lol why do they exist? maybe to keep conscious life appeased and fulfilled?

      anyways, i have went on and on about this very simple idea about plants that are beautiful and fruits and veges that are delicious. what is the point of a human or any other sentient being that thinks and problem solves? we have had to evolve from stupid creatures to commandeer this newest form of stupid creature. we are getting smarter and can now tie our own shoes now. we have the ability to look to the sky and think about whats out there. what is out there that can HELP THE SURVIVAL OF LIFE. did you get that? help us survive... survive what? our existence...?

      if it is our will to survive in this universe, we sure do seem like we have some help. anyways, it is not delusion... life is right in front of your eyes. dont look past the things the verify your own existence.

      Like i said before i know this seems very simple minded and but life is simple. you wake up, have your morning elixir, some choose coffee, some choose rum or vodka, whatever floats your boat (though i dont know how well a boat would float on a sea of alcohol), you go out and get yourself some of these nice edible things that you put in your fuel tank of your sex machine, then you procreate and go to sleep and wake up and do it again. and we survive to the next generation. one would tend to think the things that got them to the next generation "helped" them get there.



      why would anything in this universe "help" life survive? what is the point of that? if this universe is trying to kill us any way possible, why does it also help us survive? o.O

      ok i go watch video now :)
        apologies if none of this is making sense to you or anyone else, i have a way with explaining things that can confuse. if it is TL;DR, then the point is in the last bit of my post. "in a universe that is trying to kill life in every way imaginable and unimaginable, then why does it also support life? hell not even support life, we are actually in preparations to inhabit another planet. taking with us, seeds for plants <.< ;0
Re^5: Who is your favorite scientist and why?
by holli (Abbot) on Dec 13, 2017 at 00:36 UTC
    I find it funny that some people have a problem accepting that something as complex as the universe (as a whole, not only the part we can see) is (most likely) eternal and not magical, yet somehow are fine with the idea something per definition infinitly more complex (god) exists. Or in other words, who created god?

    Also this.


    holli

    You can lead your users to water, but alas, you cannot drown them.
      the "who created god argument" is always an atheists first argument. because it is their only arguement more or less. :) im agnostic. i only believe in a creator with evidence, which is why i believe in a creator. i do not know who created god, or who created the creator of any god. those questions are far off and i do not think that the way we have evolved to just survive would allow me to even ponder it yet. we are just now coming out of "survival mode" and are figuring out things that were never even dreamed about until very recently in human timescale. i do imagine that in the future (dont know if it is direct or distant) we will be able to explain further. just because we cant explain something does not mean that evolution, or technology, wont advance enough to answer those questions. we are just now starting to really be able to answer these questions that humans have pondered about for years. we are just now, in a human timescale, inventing tools that help us see things that are hidden from our naked eyes. i can only imagine what we will invent in 100 years or 200 years, or 10,000 years ect. just because that me or you cannot explain something now, doesnt mean they wont have that answer after we are dead and gone from this existence.
        i only believe in a creator with evidence, which is why i believe in a creator.
        Ok, but what is this evidence?
        How far does the creation process go in your world? Do you believe god handknitted our DNA? Or did HE just come up with a set of laws and let it all play out according to them and is now watching us like a reality show?

        Does HE interfere occassionally, for example by healing the eyesight a middle class scottish woman while taking a break from giving AIDS to african babies?


        holli

        You can lead your users to water, but alas, you cannot drown them.
      the reason some people have a "problem" with it is because we see evidence that points to the opposite of your views. you, too, see that evidence, but you are convinced everything is just a random string of events happening. if you havent seen the double slit experiment, then you should check it out. also check out the quantum eraser. both of those /SHOULD/ blow your mind (literally). i would also like to say that, atleast for someone like me, i have not ruled out that everything is just random. it just so happens that the evidence stored in my mind leads me to think it is NOT random.
        You evaded the main point of my argument: Who created god? And if HE doesn't need a creator, why would something much simpler than HIM need one?


        holli

        You can lead your users to water, but alas, you cannot drown them.
      also, for this universe to be "infinite" it would have to be "magical". to me you have an ass backwards way of thinking at the very core of your beliefs. your only one sided with no room for correction, or so it would seem like that anyway from the comment youve made. and that stance, to me, is the opposite of the over religious scientist, which says "oh thats the work of god, no need to explain any further"... your view is "its all random, and those who try to prove otherwise are funny and idiots", which is the extreme opposite of the overly religious scientist.

      care to give me the evidence that makes you believe the universe is infinite? here is my first counter arguement to start things off: in an infinite universe, there would be no medium for our universe to exist in. with a finite universe, there is plenty room for a medium that our universe can exist efficiently inside of.
        I don't know if the universe is eternal and infinite, or finite but borderless. I canno tell wether it is cyclic or not. Maybe we're just a simulation in someone elses supercomputer. I'm a layman, just like you.

        What I do know is that every mistery ever solved turned out to be not magic or supernatural. I have no reason to believe this trend won't continue.

        But be it as it may, this discussion started with the question of religion and we all agree the jewish christian god is a man made mythology, right? Just like Thor and Krishna or one of the other countless deities in history. Nobody in this forum really believes in talking snakes and a superhuman raiding entire villages with the jawbone of a lion (or was it a goat?). At least I hope so.


        holli

        You can lead your users to water, but alas, you cannot drown them.
Re^5: Who is your favorite scientist and why?
by james28909 (Deacon) on Aug 29, 2017 at 21:10 UTC
    i am very open minded and appreciate any others thoughts. i am not trying to flame war. but you try to explain something from nothing. but then also try to explain if something created the universe... who created the thing that created the universe and so on and so on. its literally a mind F*** and something you can think about for the rest of the existence of the universe, and never have an answer for. i do not think it was meant for humans, or any other being/life form, to ever find out. sometimes i think it is all a simulation. sometimes i think einstein knew stuff that he never told people about from fear of causing catastrophe. but all you can do is live and love and hope for the best, in a universe full of growing entropy :)

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