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in reply to Re: Code plagiarism and clueless newbs
in thread Code plagiarism and clueless newbs
Your reply ignores completely the point of the article, and my meditation, which is about CompSci students cheating to pass classes and get jobs for which they are not in fact qualified.
The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
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Re^3: Code plagiarism and clueless newbs
by shmem (Chancellor) on May 30, 2017 at 22:17 UTC
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Your reply ignores completely the point of the article, and my meditation, which is about CompSci students cheating to pass classes and get jobs for which they are not in fact qualified.
To address this point: It's them that's cheating, not you & me. Your benefit of teaching is giving; their detriment of cheating is disqualification (sooner or later), or no qualification at all.
I know a handful of monks only. Most are completely and utterly unknown to me, and it is up to them what they do, and why. By answering questions I train my own skill in explaining things, and sometimes I find myself exploring things I hadn't thought about yet.
Do people from "no such agency" come here? for sure. Blackhats, skript kiddies, you name it? Of course. Do I condone their actions? How so, if I know neither them nor their actions? Suspicion is akin to prejudice.
That said, glaring "homework questions" can be answered by gently putting them on the path of learning, or providing them clothes obviously too big to fit.
Yeah, some Seekers Of Perl Wisdom obviously don't seek wisdom in the first place, but hopefully at last, then.
perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'
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Re^3: Code plagiarism and clueless newbs
by zentara (Archbishop) on May 30, 2017 at 18:47 UTC
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Hi, it isn't only computer science students cheating in school, they all are doing it. In fact, unless you come out of MIT or Cal Tech, most college grads are unqualified for any job. I saw it start when the universities began grading on curves, so that they could keep their student body levels high, and collect tuition. I've been in engineering classes where 95 % of the students got less than 50% on the final, yet they were passed with C's on the curve.
The colleges just don't want to flunk people out anymore. They encourage cooperating in groups, taking open-book tests, and just problem solving in general. Plagiarism is just part of that culture.
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++ I saw a survey, probably 15 years ago already, of young adults and an IRRATIONALLY HIGH amount of them did not see cheating as immoral or problematic. I can’t remember if it was a full supermajority/quorum but it was a majority.
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One could think this might get fixed in job interviews...
As a matter of fact I had once a skype interview with guys in San Francisco who were totally confused about my replies.
They were obviously reading the questions from another display and the answer I gave wasn't listed.
update
next time I'll better offer an interface between our cheat apps
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You still haven't read the article, have you? It's about how the colleges do *not* tolerate code plagiarism, have software and other procedures to identify it, and penalize it. And my meditation is about the role that Monks here play in that process, not about grading on the curve, nor about giving away knowledge, nor about whether being a team player is more or less important than coding skills, nor about any other topic.
In fact, unless you come out of MIT or Cal Tech, most college grads are unqualified for any job.
As for that statement ... good example of how meaningfulness and hyperbole are in inverse proportion!
The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
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From the article:
Complicating matters is the collaborative ethos among programmers, which encourages code-sharing in ways that might not be acceptable in a class. Professors also frequently allow students to discuss problems among themselves, but not to share actual code, a policy that some students say creates confusion about what constitutes cheating.
Yes, we are all about code reuse, don't reinvent the wheel, 98% of your application is already written
and so forth, but there's a difference between citing and plagiarism, the latter being claiming ownership (or concealing someone else's ownership). And there is a blurred line between "doing someone's homework" and "giving private lessons" (or auxiliary classes) to enable proper homework doing.
Writing tests is meant to be done unassisted. How can we tell whether the problems/tasks showing up in SoPW are meant to be solved with or without assistence? Is a complete solution beneficial, at all? The answers must be found again and again for each case, individually, without having a good basis for judgement.
On a broader view, we all seek and find foreign solutions in our daily doing. Strange RADIUS behavior? Kernel Oops? Network problems? Google it! Take and use the work already done by others, if hunting this particular bug is way over your head.
Quick, what is 13 * 16? 0xfe in decimal? Kids use calculators even for one-digit multiplications. We have externalized so many skills into devices and machines, that most people even don't know what skills they could aquire. In a predatory world driven by concurrency the one which most unscrupulously exploits resources wins in the short term. In the long term they remain poor.
The fool makes himself tall to surmount others. The wise makes himself small to surmount himself.
Becoming a fool or a wise person is (also) a personal choice, and there's little or nothing to do about that from the outside.
perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'
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