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Re^5: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

by aaron_baugher (Curate)
on Jul 01, 2015 at 13:13 UTC ( #1132813=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^4: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...
in thread And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

If you've been reading his posts for years, then yes, you could know from the title and username what was coming and that it would deserve a downvote. (Heck, I didn't even need to see the username. As soon as I read the title, I knew who wrote it and what it would be like. A quick scan only confirmed it.)

This isn't something that just sprang up. Reasonable people didn't suddenly become unreasonable out of the blue. This has been going on for years, and people are understandably frustrated. If multiple people who used to be reluctant to downvote at all are becoming quick with the trigger, maybe that shows the extent of the problem.

Aaron B.
Available for small or large Perl jobs and *nix system administration; see my home node.

  • Comment on Re^5: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...

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Re^6: And here's why I think "downvotes" should be eliminated, or tabulated separately ...
by chacham (Prior) on Jul 01, 2015 at 13:26 UTC

    If multiple people who used to be reluctant to downvote at all are becoming quick with the trigger, maybe that shows the extent of the problem.

    That reason reeks of intolerance. It was used to suppress entire populations.

    Anyway, everyone says ignore, ignore, ignore. You can't? This is a site for programmers. A little magic with javascript (or CSS?) can completely remove a user's posts from view. I'm surprised PM doesn't have a /ignore outside of CB.

    The other argument is that you need to block these posts from new users. However, downvotes do not help at all for that. Firstly, because they cannot see the rep of a post (unless they voted and already have their own opinion about it.) Secondly, points do nothing. Indeed, downvotes seem to just release pressure for those who vote. Like honking your horn after some idiot cuts you off.

    If PM wants to quash a certain user, than quash him. Have a vote or something and just do it. Downvotes achieve nothing.

      That reason reeks of intolerance. It was used to suppress entire populations.

      No, that's just silly. A community can enforce minimal standards of acceptable behavior without "suppressing entire populations." Let's not invoke Godwin's Law over one annoying troll. That's simply an argument for having no standards at all.

      Downvotes achieve nothing.

      Maybe that's the point we're trying to make by using them.

      Look, we've had this discussion before. We tried ignoring him. The problem with that is it leaves him free to post his nonsense unopposed where newbies will find it and be misled or driven away from Perl. That's no good for a programming help site that can be entered at any node from search engines. We've tried reasoning with him, but he's not interested. If we bring up banning him, or even reaping his posts, that's shot down as censorship. You just argued that downvoting his posts is tantamount to "suppressing" people, but you'd support outright banning him? That seems backwards.

      So all we're left with is downvotes and explaining why he's wrong. Over and over. Day after day. Year after year.

      If you have a better solution, one that hasn't already been tried and failed or suggested and shot down, and that won't make people faint at the spectre of censorship or suppression, please offer it. The community needs it.

      Aaron B.
      Available for small or large Perl jobs and *nix system administration; see my home node.

        where newbies will find it and be misled or driven away from Perl.

        And that rightly justifies the replies. However, downvoting still achieves nothing. And, lest we forget my original comment "If you didn't read it, why both vote and reply to it?", which has zero to do with preventing new users from anything about Perl.

        You just argued that downvoting his posts is tantamount to "suppressing" people, but you'd support outright banning him?

        I made no such comment! I was responding to the idea that "If multiple people who used to be reluctant to downvote at all are becoming quick with the trigger, maybe that shows the extent of the problem" is an intolerant approach. Nothing against the downvotes themselves.

        a better solution

        There are many (better) solutions. It depends on what flavor people want. Here's some that might require tweaking:

        1. Defaulting Note Ordering in User Settings to "Best First"
        2. Show post reputation
        3. Allow comment filtration based on reputation
        4. Allow an "answer" or "seconded" flag for replies.

        #1 is used by some other popular sites. bad comments aren't hidden. Good comments simply take precedence.

        #2 is said to be open to abuse. However, hiding reputation is also open to abuse.

        #3 is used by Slashdot. Anyone can see what they want. They can change the default to anything they want. But, a default is applied simply to filter out the worst comments.

        #4 is not rep. It would be a simple way for people to vote on the current reply. Perhaps limited to one per question. It doesn't say "nice post." It says "this is the solution."

        Positive reinforcement usually works best. That is, no action against abusers, but without support, they are all but consigned to oblivion.

        The other approach is optional and default filters. Those are good to help newbies until they learn the ropes.

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