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Re^3: What Made the Perl Community Mean Spirited? (haut dolts)

by tye (Sage)
on Feb 13, 2015 at 01:05 UTC ( #1116563=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: What Made the Perl Community Mean Spirited?
in thread What Made the Perl Community Mean Spirited?

Xerox PARC OO isn't Moose and Moose isn't Xerox PARC OO. So both sides of your interactions might be perceiving or suspecting some idiocy due to significant differences in expectations when talking "OO".

As for the "haughty", your name dropping makes me suspect that might also be something being perceived/suspected on both sides of your interactions.

(No, I am not trying to claim that there is no "haughty" nor "idiocy" within some subcult of Moose that you have been interacting with. I actually expect to find a higher quotient of Kool-Aid among Moose officiandos than within the wider Perl community -- though a lower quotient than, say, among Perl::Critic fandom.)

I recall Larry commenting about not being so rude to newbies and that mostly being in line with more extensive such comments from Casey(?) West (e.g. 74314 or 88284) and that this was, from what I could tell, more about (but not exclusively about) a particular, if popular Perl IRC channel, and that that particular problem was also considered well addressed quite a while ago (though such is never fully addressed where the internet is involved).

If Larry's comments were significantly more recent than that (as your description clearly claims), then I would guess it was in response to Perl6-related knee-jerk responses that have been evolving into rather nasty trolling. So I doubt that has much to do with your Moose woes.

Vague and over-broad problem statements often don't lead to answers that address the problem well. I can understand your reluctance to just call out who was rude to you where, when, and how. Actually, I discourage you from doing that. If you can muster the eloquence, then some particulars about "where" might get you better-targeted answers without earning you much pay-back, though.

- tye        

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Re^4: What Made the Perl Community Mean Spirited? (haut dolts)
by jabowery (Beadle) on Feb 13, 2015 at 07:53 UTC

    It's hard to see yourself the way others see you, but I do recall one of my experiences of a Moose maven in IRC being so obviously aggressive that all I could say was "My, my..." and eventually others had to step in and _very_ gingerly -- lest they incur his wrath -- assert that maybe I wasn't just a know-nothing idiot. This wasn't the only unpleasantness in the Moose IRC channel I encountered but it was one of the earliest and most obviously, to me, unprovoked.

    There is a sense in some particularly ego-attached to Moose (as with any theoretic construct) that even an ignorant question honestly asked about how one can go about doing something that isn't well supported by Moose _must_ be indicative of a lack of understanding of basic principles of programming or something. This isn't the way to make friends and influence people.

    I've tried dealing with this by presenting as obsequiously as I can without sounding sarcastic -- and been criticized, in a rather inflammatory manner, for that too.

    Its hard to know how to disarm these environments.

      So your post would have more aptly been titled "What Made Individuals in the Moose irc Channel Mean Spirited?" ?

        I can't say its limited to the IRC environment but perhaps it is concentrated in the Moose cult more or less.

      Some perspective on irc http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/on-being-a-bastard/ ...

      I used to chuckle at that article, because I've seen that html/regex thing come up a million times ...

      its very different when the topic isn't as clear cut as html/regex and its you getting this level of irc welcome

      irc, its like a pressure cooker around somebody elses living room ... not where I turn for programming help )

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