Re^2: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)

"...automatic paragraph breaks, which are easy to do..."

I found this thread because I searched for "paragraph breaks".

Posting from a tablet or phone, (something I do more and more frequently these days) and inserting code for paragraph breaks on a touchscreen keyboard is like, a nearly intolerable nuisance. I don't like Tiny MCE, please no, but converting text newlines to html paragraph breaks is a trivial substitution.

I'm not exactly a "newbie", though, historically I post very infrequently, I thought, perhaps it was thought that forcing people to insert a minimum of HTML into their posts will be educational or something. I don't know.

But now, to make this posting more readable, I will need to navigate down into the deep recesses of this bloody tablet and find the left angle bracket, navigate back out, through several layers of keyboard functions to type in a p. Dive back down for the right angle bracket, do the same steps for the end paragraph, including the forward slash this time. Copy these to clipboard and go back through my post and paste in paragraph breaks. All of which takes more time than it took to write the post itself.

If I were going to post here often, it would probably be easier to hack my tablet or phone (both Android) and do something with the keyboard layout to include some basic HTML. Maybe there is an app for that? Sometimes on my phone I see a .com key.

Now time for another grueling exercise in constructing html paragraph breaks. (On my computer, typing html is second nature, but the angle brackets are actually on the keyboard!)

Tom

Comment on Re^2: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)

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Re^3: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by GrandFather (Saint) on Feb 03, 2020 at 09:03 UTC
I agree that needing to add your own HTML markup is a pain. However my experience with a number of other forums where a WYSIWY(almost never)G is provided has convinced me that PerlMonks' actually has landed in the right place by placing the smarts on the far side of the keyboard. For reasons I can't fathom every online editor I've used offering more than trivial markup gets it wrong, especially when trying to handle a mixture of prose and code. Some make it almost impossible to post something and have any idea at all what it's going to look like. Even big players like Google can't get simple editing right. PerlMonks seems to get scorn poured on it for "looking old". Maybe, but I find it much easier to navigate than any other similar forum I've used - bar none! I use Recently Active Threads as my "home page" and open threads I'm interested in reading in a separate tab. In my opinion the sideways tree view makes the flow of conversation much easier to follow than any other forum I use. Yes, it would be nice if it were easier for noobs to enter nice posts, but for the most part a poorly formatted post is a great heads up that the OP has applied laziness in the wrong way. I consider for the most part PerlMonks ain't broke, so please don't "fix it"! Optimising for fewest key strokes only makes sense transmitting to Pluto or beyond	[reply]
Re^4: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by Fletch (Bishop) on Feb 03, 2020 at 17:41 UTC
I largely agree (I myself am perfectly used to crafting my own HTML and see no reason noobs can't likewise learn to walk uphill both ways in the snow :), but then I wonder if a markdown option of some sort might not help since everyone and their dog uses it for markup these days. If there were a toggle that defaulted on for new users (and/or you could twiddle per post) that might let the new, unwashed, markdown-accustomed masses contribute "more easily" while still allowing the power users / ancient fogeys to hand lathe their posts. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie.	[reply]
Re^5: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by marto (Cardinal) on Feb 03, 2020 at 18:15 UTC
I seem to recall someone (possibly ambrus) made something alone these lines years ago, some HTML/JavaScript wizardry that utilised the free nodelet or something. There are links elsewhere in this thread that will likely lead you down the correct rabbit hole.	[reply]
Re^6: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by jdporter (Paladin) on Feb 04, 2020 at 19:29 UTC
Re^7: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by marto (Cardinal) on Feb 04, 2020 at 20:49 UTC
Re^4: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by PerlGuy(Tom) (Acolyte) on Feb 07, 2020 at 06:20 UTC
I detest, for the most part, any WYSIWYG html editor I've ever used. I would not propose that. But paragraph breaks are so frequently used, I think it would be justified. I would not (edit: want to ) have to manually insert space between words with   either. I think if there is a big key on the keyboard for it, (RETURN) why not use it. The whole problem goes back to the 80's only because different computer makers had different implementations for "return". newline for Unix and newline-linefeed for windows. If not for such incompatibuilities, we never would have needed HTML to bridge the divide. Tom	[reply]
Re^5: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Feb 07, 2020 at 09:15 UTC
I would not have to manually insert space between words with  either. I take it you mean sentences; joining words with it makes for HTML display disasters. That’s bad style today and going back decades so affording it… If one wanted to attempt a more traditional approach, pedanticism demands &emsp; but then you should probably also be applying &emsp13; or some other traditional typesetting non-\x{20} space for word separation. If not for such incompatibuilities, we never would have needed HTML to bridge the divide. That is an extremely odd thing to say…	[reply]
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Re^3: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by LanX (Saint) on Jan 29, 2020 at 15:28 UTC
I wrote Wikisyntax for the Monastery some years ago, this might be of help for you. Most of my posts are written on mobile and I almost never need to type html markup. Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :) Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice}	[reply]
Re^4: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by PerlGuy(Tom) (Acolyte) on Jan 30, 2020 at 23:12 UTC
Now that so much effort has gone into finding such imaginative workarounds, It would be a shame to actually fix it. I know what would be fun. Someone could open up CGI.pm, if that's what this forum uses, and remove the URL encoding decoding line. text=And+see+how+the+Perl%2Fjavascript+hackers+in+here+ deal+with+everyone%27s+posts+looking+something+like+this Tom	[reply]
Re^5: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by LanX (Saint) on Jan 30, 2020 at 23:29 UTC
What? Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :) Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice}	[reply]
Re^6: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by PerlGuy(Tom) (Acolyte) on Feb 01, 2020 at 18:08 UTC
Re^7: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by marto (Cardinal) on Feb 01, 2020 at 19:20 UTC
Some notes below your chosen depth have not been shown here
Re^7: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by Anonymous Monk on Feb 01, 2020 at 18:24 UTC
Some notes below your chosen depth have not been shown here
Re^3: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by mr_mischief (Monsignor) on Feb 17, 2020 at 20:42 UTC
I don't believe that in March 2009 when I wrote my reply so many people were using their phones and tablets as primary Internet devices. Still, I think a markdown or similar wiki-friendly input method would be worthwhile. Even if the site just added links for URLs and auto-added paragraph tags for consecutive newlines it would be nice. We'd still need a way to denote code, and I like PM's way generally more than, say, Reddit's.	[reply]
Re^3: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) by Anonymous Monk on Jan 30, 2020 at 01:18 UTC
But now, to make this posting more readable, I will need to navigate down into the deep recesses of this bloody tablet and find the left angle bracket, navigate back out, through several layers of keyboard functions to type in a p. Dive back down for the right angle bracket, do the same steps for the end paragraph, including the forward slash this time. Copy these to clipboard and go back through my post and paste in paragraph breaks. All of which takes more time than it took to write the post itself. Make yourself a template ;) I keep mine in my clipboard , something like `<p><i> </i> <p> <p><i> </i> <c> </c> <p> <p> [mod://]] <p> [cpan://]] <p> [dict://]] <p> [wp://]] <p> [href://]]` [download]	[reply] [d/l]
Re^4: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others) (Node Template) by LanX (Saint) on Jan 30, 2020 at 09:04 UTC
See also Signature Settings Your Node Template:* You can put tags that you often use here so that they will be pre-loaded into the text area when you compose a new node* Cheers Rolf _{(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :) Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice}	[reply]


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