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Re: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename

by 1nickt (Abbot)
on Jan 10, 2020 at 21:21 UTC ( #11111306=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename

Does the author of that PR speak for all of TPF? Was there any discussion? A vote?

Given what the Rakudists decided (to voluntarily separate themselves from Perl), it sure sounds like (some of?) TPF is obstinately refusing to accept reality.

For a minute there I thought I would be able to start donating again :-(


The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
  • Comment on Re: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename

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Re^2: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename
by dsheroh (Prior) on Jan 11, 2020 at 09:07 UTC
    Given what the Rakudists decided (to voluntarily separate themselves from Perl)
    Although I'm personally Perl 5 only, I made a point of following the discussion of Liz's renaming ticket on github. It's been a few months now, so I may have forgotten someone, but I recall exactly zero P6/Raku1 proponents who supported the renaming because they wanted to jettison the P5 community. There were a couple who were concerned about historical baggage attached to the Perl name, but none who wanted to separate themselves from the community. On the contrary, one of the more common objections from the P6/Raku side was from people who were concerned that a name change would divide the community and possibly even spur (more) ill will between the P5 people and the P6/Raku people.

    This statement from TPF is not a refusal to accept reality, it looks to me like an acknowledgement of the reality that many people wanted reassurance that Raku would remain a valued member of the Perl family, regardless of what name it might carry.

    The only people I can recall who wanted to see the communities split were a tiny number (2? 3?) of Perl 5 purists who wanted to jettison P6/Raku and everything connected to it, regardless of whether it was renamed or not, while waving a hearty "good riddance". This was not even close to a majority viewpoint on the P5 side, and, again, I don't recall anyone at all on the P6/Raku side who desired this.

    Oh, wait... Yes, I think there was one P6/Raku supporter who said he wanted the Raku renaming because he believed it would hasten P5's (in his opinion) long-overdue demise. So I guess the supporters of both languages do include a lunatic fringe. Even so, that remains a tiny minority position, not the general consensus.

     

    1 Using "P6/Raku" here rather than just "Raku" because, at the time of the discussion in question, the renaming had not yet taken place.

      "Wendy's renaming ticket" -> "Liz' renaming ticket". I am Wendy, and I was opposed to the renaming, but that's water under the bridge.
        Whoops! Sorry about that error. I have corrected the attribution in my earlier post.

      Tiny number. Sure.

      The ill will you speak of was caused by the (adjectives withheld) language squatting on the name and the rename (and thus a chance to solve the ongoing confusion hurting both languages) was supported by way more than a tiny number of people. Most of those either did not bother attending the discussion over there at the dark side or got their comments deleted.

      On the nothing-left-of-perl-but-otherwise-everything-anyone-happened-to-think-of side of the split the number of people that believed the name hurts them was ... well, the whole community is tiny so yeah, there were a couple of those. The whole community is a couple of people.

      Jenda
      1984 was supposed to be a warning,
      not a manual!

Re^2: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename
by holli (Abbot) on Jan 10, 2020 at 23:38 UTC
    TPF is obstinately refusing to accept reality.
    You mean, your reality. Why do you hold this grudge? What did the Raku people do to you that you withhold donations? You remind me of the people who do not give money to the homeless because they might buy alcohol from it.


    holli

    You can lead your users to water, but alas, you cannot drown them.

      I seem to remember that he mentioned that big parts of the budget is bound to projects.

      So donating specifically to Perl5 shouldn't be a problem.

      update

      If you wanna check:

      youtube -> Stuart Mackintosh (‎SJM‎) - The Perl Foundation

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

      PS: Feeding means giving attention.

      "You remind me of the people who do not give money to the homeless because they might buy alcohol from it"

      Well, yes, thank you for the analogy. That is exactly what I don't do if the homeless person's actions and statements show clearly that they are in the throes of an addiction, have not acknowledged their problem, do not have or even desire a plan for recovery, and are clutching tightly to the most recent bottle of booze they've swallowed, with its last precious dregs at the bottom.


      The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
Re^2: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 11, 2020 at 13:33 UTC
    For a minute there I thought I would be able to start donating again :-(

    so you dont wanna support perl 6, so put yer money wehre yer mouth is and donate to the perl 5 core maint fund, its been around since 2011

      I wrote this in an email to TPF in 2017:

      "If I donate with an earmark, will 100% of my donation go to the grant I specify, or will any portion of it be used for general operating expenses of the Foundation?"

      I did not receive an answer to that question in the reply. But my experience with foundations is that there is always a portion of income > 0 that goes to general expenses.


      The way forward always starts with a minimal test.
        So they didn't hire a PR lady yet, to quickly answer your emails?

        Doesn't look like you ever donated for any Perl version.

Re^2: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 10, 2020 at 22:12 UTC
    TPF President
Re^2: The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename
by Anonymous Monk on Jan 11, 2020 at 09:51 UTC
    Given what the Rakudists decided (to voluntarily separate themselves from Perl), it sure sounds like (some of?) TPF is obstinately refusing to accept reality.

    Although the section entitled "TPF & Raku" addresses this issue, I agree that it is full of half-hearted rationalizations to continue the confusion between these now officially acknowledged completely different programming languages, instead of making a clean break to the new wineskin.

      completely different programming languages

      nope

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