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Re: Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?

by digital_carver (Sexton)
on Aug 28, 2013 at 03:39 UTC ( #1051227=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?

The amount of self-righteousness in this thread is staggering. This is not about "prettiness" or "cosmetic" issues, this is about usability, and PM fails horribly at that. It is entirely newbie-unfriendly and has a worse learning curve than vi (with less justification at that).

Look at the amount of information overload in the homepage. There's a mess of links at the top, mixing account management (logout and username), advanced search (why isn't that near the Search button!), category nodes, and misc. stuff (recent threads, newest nodes) with no distinction. Then there's this utter mess of a sidebar with no differentiation between frequently used and rarely-if-ever needed links (and does "Other users" really need such a prominent place?), along with possibly the world's worst chatterbox in existence.

Now, you might have gotten used to it and "come to love the site" or some nonsense, but most replies here are firmly pretending as if a usability problem doesn't even exist here. The site is newbie-hostile and does not belong in 2013. And when a monk politely wonders why this is so, there's tons of comments getting up in arms against them, and very little actual discussion as to how this can be changed.

There have been a few good suggestions to make the site look better, but they still only "prettify" the site, don't actually solve the usability issues. Also, the average newbie isn't going to know about these (and things aren't easy to find due the above-mentioned overload issue), so their usefulness is hugely reduced due to avoidable factors. If this site were open source, or if we had some active maintanence here, we could do so much better, but no suggestion has been made regarding taking steps towards that. PM is the biggest gateway to the Perl community, but right now it's unusable and very successful at scaring newbies away. Defaults matter, let's get some sane ones in place!

  • Comment on Re: Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?

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Re^2: Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Aug 28, 2013 at 03:50 UTC
    This is not about "prettiness" or "cosmetic" issues, this is about usability, and PM fails horribly at that.

    Well said++

    Unfortunately, you're just pissing in the wind.

    The 'Queen bee hereabouts has "no time" to make major changes; and no incentive to allow others to do so.

    Like the proverbial Prima Donna; there is no incentive to train an understudy. Nor even to facilitate that training.

      I normally find myself completely in your camp but were you not going on about repeatedly refusing pmdevhood recently?

      The site's cosmetics don't bother me a bit. I'm here to read and that's best done in simple, even simplistic, layout. The UX/UI isn't great but meh. I tried hacking on Everything code. While it was years ago and before I'd hit my stride as a developer, it did bother me, completely. The best use of any devís time, really, in regards to PM is a total rewrite based on a functional spec of the current one with a little UX design input from StackOverflow and the like which themselves get enough wrong that I'd rather be here even with the inferior UI.

      I've thought about tackling this. It's actually probably not all the that much work. Porting is easier than designing. It's mostly busy work. But I'm busy so keep my pot shots a little more Nerf than buckshot.

        were you not going on about repeatedly refusing pmdevhood recently?

        I don't recall what form of anointment was offered; but it was just the once.

        But I've been around here long enough to see pmdev's come and go, along with their enthusiasm, as idea after idea is shot down by the definitive opinion of one person. Usually in long diatribes littered with caprice.


        With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
        Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
        "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
        In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

      Well said++

      Not really, just more childish rudeness -- boring

Re^2: Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?
by iguanodon (Priest) on Aug 29, 2013 at 00:55 UTC
    it is entirely newbie-unfriendly and has a worse learning curve than vi
    Wow, thanks. Because now I feel really smart. Because for me the learning curve for this site was flat. Vi however is a different story...
Re^2: Why is PerlMonks.org still so ugly and outdated on presentation?
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 28, 2013 at 08:03 UTC

    The amount of self-righteousness in this thread is staggering

    Great first post, I love you, you're master of diplomacy. "Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

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