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Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks

by elbie (Curate)
on Jul 28, 2001 at 05:31 UTC ( #100506=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

How hard would it be to allow Monks to change their "philosophy"? What I was thinking is to allow the ability to switch the names of Monk level titles between the current Western style to something of an Eastern style. A suggestion for Eastern style titles:
  1. Seeker
  2. Apprentice
  3. Chanter
  4. Disciple
  5. Thinker
  6. Adept
  7. Enlightened
  8. Master
  9. Buddha
  10. Bodhisattra
eXperience Points could likewise be named eNlightenment Points.

The names would be based on who you were viewing (not who was doing the viewing) except for things line the XP Nodelet which refers to the viewer anyway.

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by scottstef (Curate) on Jul 28, 2001 at 18:53 UTC
    FWIW, the buddha should be the top level. Buddha is a term for enlightnement.
    Buddha- one who has awakened, used to describe those who have attained complete and perfect enlightenment. Often used to describe the last historical Buddha (Guatma of the Shakya clan)
    Bodhisattva-a Buddhist term meaning "wisdom"(bohdi) and "essence"(sattva) indicating either the exalted spiritual condition of Shakayamuni before he was incarnated into this realm, or in the Mahayana form of Buddhism, someone who has undertaken the vow oto renounce Enlightenment until all others are able to be enlightened
    Definitions courtesy of The Bodhisattva Warriors by Shifu Nagaboshi Tomio copyright 1994 by Weiser Press.

    The social dynamics of the net are a direct consequence of the fact that nobody has yet developed a Remote Strangulation Protocol." -- Larry Wall

      I think that Buddha is an inappropriate title for a PerlMonk. A Buddha has achieved enlightenment. They are beyond this world and are useless except as examples showing us that enlightenment is achievable. However the Bodhisattvas remain and assist others, just as people here assist. I like that image of active assistance of others more than the gracious acceptance of enlightenment recieved.
Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by azatoth (Curate) on Jul 28, 2001 at 15:02 UTC
Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by mdillon (Priest) on Jul 28, 2001 at 21:31 UTC
    this idea reminded me of alignment in Nethack (not to belittle adherents of either philosophical/religious school in question). for my own part, i'd like to be able to choose a Chaotic alignment (on PerlMonks and elsewhere). time to find a black altar and a white unicorn to sacrifice upon it...
Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by HyperZonk (Friar) on Jul 28, 2001 at 21:19 UTC
    My first thought is "what a great idea!" since I happen to be a Buddhist (with some modifications in the order and names of the levels, most notably the one mentioned by scottstef). But then I thought about it ... that way madness leads. After all, there are more philosophies out there than just Christianity and Buddhism. How will we accommodate the Hindus, Jews, followers of Islam, secular humanists, pagans, et al.? Still, elbie++ in my book.

    BTW, for your amusement, another level list suggestion for Buddhists:
    1. Seeker
    2. Meditator
    3. Apprentice
    4. One-Gone-Forth
    5. Bikkhu (Buddhist monk)
    6. Abbot
    7. Stream Enterer
    8. Pratyekabuddha
    9. Bodhisattva
    10. Buddha

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by Nitsuj (Hermit) on Jul 31, 2001 at 03:05 UTC
    I don't think that it would be very difficult. I would consider it a theming issue, but while I think that it's a cool idea, I'm not sure that it should be done, merely because nobody would know what the heck their rank is in relation to all the other systems. We could have monks, buddhas, witches, agnostics, athiests, martians, and druids all running around the site, nobody knowing what their equivalent roles are without cross referencing it on a table. After a while, some group would say that we're discriminating because nobody thought to include their religion! All of the sudden we're not offering ranks to people who pray to tiki gods and we have a problem (just an example folks)!

    One possible solution would be to automatically replace any occurence of a certain word themably, it's kind of a perl problem right there (IE, one that could be solved with perl), but then people who write nodes on St Jude all of the sudden have it replaced with Buddha Jude, and nobody knows who the hell Buddha Jude is, and we all get a big laugh out of it, but then we sit on a bug.

    Eh, I dunno, give it a shot.

    Personally speaking, I kind of enjoy a uniformity, but that's just a personal point of view. I mean, it's not like we're a real monastery for a real religion. It's just like Boy Scouts has Tenderfoot, 1st Class, and so on... If they changed their patches based on political views, nobody would know what the heck their ranks were.

    Just Another Perl Backpacker
Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by tune (Curate) on Jul 31, 2001 at 20:30 UTC
    It should be an optional choice. Monks should choose their preference which ranks to use (default is Western). Surely implementable. As time goes on, every religious minority could announce their need for another rank list, and should provide it.


Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by buckaduck (Chaplain) on Aug 01, 2001 at 00:32 UTC
    I'm waiting for the SF fans to bring in their religious preferences:
    1. Supplicant
    2. Apprentice
    3. Jedi Knight
    4. Jedi Master
    5. Sith Lord
    6. Luke
    7. Darth Vader
    8. Obi-Wan
    9. Yoda
    10. Emperor


      Talk about coming in the the conversation late. What do yall think of this SW Listing. A couple of these are made (ie the sub-classes of Padawan

      1. Midichlorian
      2. Supplicant
      3. Young Padawan
      4. Padawan Learner
      5. Padawan Apprentice
      6. Jedi-Knight
      7. Jedi-Master
      8. Jedi Counsel Member
      9. Jedi-Lord
      10. One With the Force

      Kristofer Hoch

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by joefission (Monk) on Aug 02, 2001 at 10:25 UTC
    Philosophy themes aren't a bad idea. But would you really want those of us with a disturbed sense of humor to view you as:

    1. Newbie
    2. Whale Sh*t
    3. Dumbass
    4. Inept
    5. Snob
    6. Know-It-All
    7. Smartass
    8. Arrogant F*ck
    9. Medicated Reality Chaser
    10. Anti-Social Psychotic With a Gun and a List

    Oops...I talked myself out of that one...themes are bad m'kay?

      Like I said in my first post, the names are dependent on who you were viewing. i.e. If your theme was the above theme, and you were looking at vroom who still had the standard theme, you would see his level as saint, not as ASPWG&L.

      Also, I am not suggesting that everyone have their own theme. It might get a little confusing if everybody and their brother could define their current level as saint or master or something less in the spirit of PerlMonks. :)

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by jlk (Hermit) on Jul 30, 2001 at 22:36 UTC

    I think that the idea of having alternate titles is interesting. It gives one more choices to make for themselves. Personally, I kind of like some of the titles people have come up with. What about vroom having a contest to come up with a title list for the "Eastern Monks"? That would give everyone a chance to have some input. </P
    "Learning Unix sometimes involves Pain, PaIn, PAIN!!"

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by RatArsed (Monk) on Jul 31, 2001 at 16:30 UTC
    some people may feel that should be an Agnositc alternative if you let people choose between Eastern and Western eclesiastical schemes... (in addition to hindus, islam, jews, etc )


Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by Daddio (Chaplain) on Aug 03, 2001 at 05:21 UTC

    I know I am getting into this far behind most of the replies, but there was an evening there that I couldn't even get to the site (what a shame to lose those votes!).

    Reading through this thread, I had a couple of thoughts about how to go about this (not that these are anything special, but I thought I'd share them anyway).

    • Add a section to the User Preferences that allows you to choose your preferred "school."
    • So that vroom doesn't get overloaded with requests, allow editors to add new schools to the list, along with their relative levels. These additions could be voted on before posting.
    • Since (from what I have seen anyway) the monk levels only show on a few pages, add code to the output of the pages to display to the monk his/her school level, and display to everyone else a default level (current levels maybe?) along with what the monk is in their school.

    I don't know how the levels are stored in the database, but lookups for the displays should be pretty easy to implement. Well, that is what I was thinking...

    D a d d i o

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by hacker_j99 (Beadle) on Jul 30, 2001 at 00:01 UTC
    I think personally that the title of Buddha is both offensive to both nonbuddists ( ie. being called buddha) and buddist ( ie thinking that the level of buddha is not reachable) but hey thats my thought.

    I would however like to see the title of level 1 (initiate) changed to something following our current system
      Certainly, if taken the wrong way, you might be right. I don't feel that this is any worse than automatically being confined to the Christian/Western ideals. HyperZonk also makes a valid point asking where do we draw the line. I proposed the Zen/Buddhist idea because when one thinks of monks these are the two that would hopefully spring to mind most readily. Other beliefs may have equivalents but are they Monks?

      True, while it is (marginally) more likely that one would be cannonized a saint than to achieve enlightement (at least in this lifetime) there is a certain aspect that we can associate with. As others have pointed out, the purpose of a Bodhisattva is to help others achieve enlightenment. Isn't that what we are trying to do here?

Re: Eastern Monks vs. Western Monks
by hsmyers (Canon) on Aug 01, 2001 at 00:13 UTC

    Seems to me you forgot one level--Beginner. Not sure which end of the list it belongs on though...


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