Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by tilly (Archbishop) on Nov 12, 2004 at 04:20 UTC
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I'd prefer to see this combined with A Proposal for Additional Levels (which I thought got mostly positive commentary) and say that at certain levels you stop getting XP for various things.
For instance at Monk (6 in the new system) you'd lose the 50% bonus for voting out, at Vicar (11 in the new system) you'd lose the bonus for signing in, and at Bishop (16 in the new system) you'd lose the bonus for voting on someone else. With tye's XP scheme only 36 users would lose the voting bonus, a few hundred would lose the login bonus, and more people would have the "vote-out" bonus than do now.
Yes, I know that you wanted a smaller change. But the real issue with a big change is not getting people to agree to it, or getting it implemented, it is agreeing which change to make. | [reply] |
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My general impression is that A Proposal for Additional Levels will happen in some form or another. Main issues are tuits. It could also be argued that I am the reason that it hasnt happened as I have argued rather strongly a number of times that this change should coincide with some other internal changes, partially to make it easier to facilitate and partly to avoid changing the same code twice. My girlfriend is going away for the weekend though so I expect to have a nice of chunk of time this weekend to get my changes to Everything::NodeBase fished and tested and posted for peer review. How long it takes after that depends on how the changes are received. One nice bonus of the changes involved should be speedup, a subject that weve been workingon in the background for some time. In passing I wonder if you or others have noticed any speedup of the site over the past week or so?
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Seconded.
Examine what is said, not who speaks.
"Efficiency is intelligent laziness." -David Dunham
"Think for yourself!" - Abigail
"Time is a poor substitute for thought"--theorbtwo
"Memory, processor, disk in that order on the hardware side. Algorithm, algorithm, algorithm on the code side." - tachyon
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by Roy Johnson (Monsignor) on Nov 12, 2004 at 03:21 UTC
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I am progressing too quickly. Already I have progressed too quickly to pontiff. Now soon I have to be a saint? For what? Too fast, too fast. I can tell you this, I felt a lot better about earning Friar and Abbot, than about being granted Bishop and Pontiff just for clicking vote.
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I'm yet another monk who doesn't want to progress too quickly. I don't want to be a Saint: I don't consider my Perl skills warrant it. And for the moment, owing to pressure from other commitments, such skills I have are hardly progressing. It's reached the point where I hesitate to use my votes, for fear of gaining XP.
I don't usually participate in XP discussions, as I consider them as pointless as XP is meaningless (i.e. other than the fact that a casual participant might think, 'Aha, X's solution must be the best way to do it, since X has a higher XP rating than Y or Z!')
So ++rozallin ... Oops!
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by dimar (Curate) on Nov 12, 2004 at 03:18 UTC
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... allow those who wish their XP to reflect the quality of their written contributions alone ...
Sounds like a nice wish. It's hard to imagine any single system that will please everyone though. It's like Universities that try alternate grading systems. You can change it around but you can still find at least *someone* dissatisfied with their 'grades'. Nevertheless, it is a nice wish.
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The fact that the number of simultaneously pleasable people is less than the total number of people in existance, is rather thin excuse for not trying to please a maximum number of contributors to a website.
Also, you are missing the point, which is that the system can contain seperate subsystems, allowing the meaning of XP to be more personallized.
THat's different than a University, where the whole point is to use the exact same system for everybody so that people can be stuffed into little pigeonholes by pointy haired managers. PerlMonks isn't used that way, we can afford to reward contributors by honoring individualism.
It's not as if, the XP here is expected to reflect any kind of standardized system of rating the users' Perl skills. Rather, XP just reflects trivial things like, how often you hang out in the catbox and click "vote." And that's fine. But other things are fine, too. There is, after all, more than one way to do it. Or at least, wouldn't it be nice if there was?
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None of the issues you address here is inconsistent with the original (very specific) point I eluded to earlier, so I will have to chalk up any (apparent) differences of opinion to The Law of Inconsistent Assumptions and leave it at that. I don't dispute any of your remarks, opinions or statements of principle about 'experience points'.
My only (very specific) point was it would be nice to have a system that would
... allow those who wish their XP to reflect the quality of their written contributions alone ...
to do so.
If this is indeed the goal, however, all it takes to upset that goal is for *anyone* to have a subjective belief that "my XP score is not commensurate with the quality of my written contributions" ... once that happens, all the other issues become secondary ... it all boils down to how do you let someone 'contest' an XP score (or change it by individual fiat) ... so that the external numbers match up with their own perception of 'quality' ... but since we know TMTOWTDI, there will always be different ways to define 'quality' and therefore, it is just a matter of which 'anonymous stranger(s)' get(s) to dictate (the publically visible) score.
No one is preventing me from keeping my own *personalized* XP system, honoring individuality, or eschewing pointy-haired-pidgeon-holing-elitism. I just get to do it in my head instead of on your computer screen.
Problem solved.
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by tmoertel (Chaplain) on Nov 12, 2004 at 04:00 UTC
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Just out of curiosity, is there any convenient way to retrieve summary statistics for (or even the distribution of) a user's nodes?
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by Aighearach (Initiate) on Nov 12, 2004 at 03:50 UTC
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I would even support this retroactivly, even if only as a one-time way to grandfather in existing users. Even if it meant recalculating XP totals in an approximate way.
Yes it was orignially the same codebase, perlmonks was forked off of everything2, and there have been many new features traded in both directions since. I would be happy to contribute any changes, if the dev people didn't have time for it. THough I doubt that's ever the case around here! lol
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by jbrugger (Parson) on Jun 25, 2005 at 22:33 UTC
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Re: Proposal: Option to Decline XP from voting
by kurt_kober (Chaplain) on Nov 17, 2004 at 19:08 UTC
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How about something in addition to XP, like PQ, participation quotient. This could still use the normal XP but factor in the number of posts + their average reputation and give a better idea of how active or valued a member that particular monk is. This could probably work with data that already exists and wouldn't change the meaning of XP in midstream making it different for some people than for others. Not that XP has a whole lot of meaning anyway... | [reply] |